The last time someone was caught lying under oath he got to be President of the United States for a few more years.
Anyway, I don't know what to say about this. A jury said he lied, so I guess he did. I always wonder how people are supposed to remember everything they say every day all the time, especially when they are talking to as many people as they do every day. If that was the standard we would all be in jail.
The only other comment I have is that people are going to jail for "outing" a super secret undercover agent who wasn't an undercover agent....go figure...
Tuesday, March 06, 2007
Libby Found Guilty in CIA Leak Trial
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
35 comments:
I liked your spin on the story!! Good job! ;) At least you didn't ignore this case!
vital
Please enlighten, what exactly was the spin? He clearly stated Libby's going to jail for lying. Of course we think it sucks that some can get away with it, if they're of the correct political persuasion, and clearly there was confusion in the jury.
A lesson for all, get on the wrong side of bueracrats, pay the price. Kind of reminds me of the old USSR, the upper class are the politicians, the upper middle class are the bueracrats, and all the rest are just pieons.
Well one obvious spin is the assertion that Plame wasn't a covert agent. Read the indictment, read the statements by Fitzpatrick. Read the complaint by the CIA. Set down the Kool-Ade.
Plame worked for the CIA. Do you dispute that? The CIA said that Plame was a covert CIA agent. That's why they filed the complaint with the DOJ in the first place. What more do you need on this subject?
Then there is the spin about trying to "remember everything they say every day all the time." This is Libby's defense spin. The jury didn't buy it. This wasn't "What did you shoot at the country club last Sunday?" This is "The wife of an administration critic works for the CIA." This is not a casual statement. It is an overt attempt to impugn the word of an administration critic.
The Clenis bit is simply irrelevant.
"Clearly there was confusion in the jury." Clearly? What is your source for that, blamin?
Blamin,
Obviously you don’t get it, do you? See, how he reluctantly agrees with the jury and the way he presented the news.
“A jury said he lied, so I guess he did...” followed by his monologue wondering how anyone can remember everything...with his final conclusion on how we all would be in Jail if “that was the standard”.
I have been reading his posts and I know how his soft approach can disappear in a second if the person involved is anyway related to liberal values.
Well, he has the right to spin the story. It's his choice. But you can't hide it.
The source is the jury members themselves who wondered why they were even trying this guy.
The CIA said she was covert? Provide link please. If she was covert, and she was outed by Armitage, as he has admitted and Fitz knew before he indicted Libby, why was there no indictment of Armitage? His crime is surely more damaging that is Libby "lying" about whether he mentioned this broad or not.
Michael Savage believes that Libby's suffering is payback for his crafting of the pardon for Mark Rich at the end of the Clinton administration. I guess Fitz had his sights on Rich and was looking forward to seeing him pay, but then the pardon came along. I don't know if any of this is true. Just heard it today and I'm not a big fan of Savage.
But here's a few things to keep in mind. Libby was not "proven" guilty of lying, he was "judged" guilty. It's the opinion of the jury, which can be wrong. And whether or not he consciously lied is indeed the issue. It's certainly not as clear cut as, say, "I did not have sex with that woman", or another proven liar, Joe Wilson. His stuff was totally crapped on by a Senate committee. Libby, by comparison, made an insignificant mistake and faces a prison term for his troubles. Go Justice!
And the bottom line is simple: The whole point of this non-issue mess was to finally convict someone from the Bush administration for something, anything, just to get it done. Talk about much ado about nothing!
Enjoy libs. But speaking of pardons, if Clinton can pardon someone like Mark Rich, Bush can surely, and surely should, pardon Lewis Libby, should the appeals run up against the same stupidity.
Jim,
Now you're the one that's spinning.
Let's look at this through clear lenses. What's an indictment? You could be indicted for being impregnated by a jackass. It doesn't matter that being male, it's physically impossible, nor does it matter that a jackass is sterile, all that matters is the DA saying "we have a case", it's not necessarily up for the grand jury to "openly" decide if the case has merit. I say "necessarily" because it all depends on the jurisdiction.
Yes Plame worked for the CIA, was she covert? Yes, SOME of the career pencil pushers said so, AFTER the fact. That still remains to be seen, and I suggest it doesn't look good for your position.
Your "remembering" blather falls way short. What's this attempted murder last Sunday crap? Ssstttreeetching. Gosh, maybe Libby should have claimed he went to the Hillary Clinton School of Recall.
Let's not even get started on "I can't even pretend I'm telling the truth" Joe. What a putz. The Dems hold this verified liar up as a major leg in this case. How sad, but apparently sufficient.
I don't think I ever disputed he may have lied, only that he may have had a fart. Ya, ya, I admit I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, because he's one of "my" guys, but also I have to say, lying politicians PISS ME OFF! But you fight on the battlefield you find yourself on. I just find it amusing that Dems raise holy hell because Repubs aren't as good at playing the system. Apparently lying without the proper "Pizazz" is an incarcerating offense.
As far as the jury confusion, watch and observe, thats a whole seperate discussion. Which I would be willing to guess you'll be (in)conspicously absent on.
vittal
reluctantly agreeing versus enthusiactally agreeing matters not. I know that's hard to fathom for a style over substance kind of guy. ...Did you make another salient point?
Marshall, juror Dennis Collins said,
"It was said a number of times, 'What are we doing with this guy here? Where's [Karl] Rove … where are these other guys?'
"We're not saying we didn't think Mr. Libby was guilty of the things we found him guilty of [emphasis mine], but it seemed like … he was the fall guy."
Collins said the jury believed Libby was "tasked by the vice president to go and talk to reporters."
Apparently the jury wasn't so confused that they couldn't find Libby guilty beyond a reasonable doubt on four counts.
Marshall, here's a link. How do you suppose this case came about? Somebody at justice decided to investigate the naming of Plame because....why? Well, because they were asked to investigate by the CIA who apparently considered their employee's identity as agent to be classified.
Marshall said, "But here's a few things to keep in mind. Libby was not "proven" guilty of lying, he was "judged" guilty. It's the opinion of the jury, which can be wrong."
Oh....My....God! This is spin in the first degree.
Good grief, blamin! We're talking golf at the country club, not murder. Try to stay engaged. And the jackass meme is so far out there I don't even know how to begin to respond.
Jim
Rove, nor the "other guys" were on trial.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. Lying pol's piss me off. By god if what they're doing justify-ibly necessitates "skirting" the rules; and you get caught, come clean.
But that's not the case here... Let's revisit shall we. What was it Libby did? He may have inadvertadly, outed, a desk jokey who was married to a man whom slandered and lied to congress, and a special commission of the senate, and the executive branch of the US, and actively put this country and it's citizens at risk ---- all for political gain, or payback, depending upon your take on the matter. Shit, as far as I'm conerned, where's the blindfold?
But you know what? Libby's a good soldier, he'll take it on the chin for his country. He'll do whatever it takes to cause the least amount of damage.
Can you think of the last Dem that would do that? I can't either. Refresh my memory.
BTW, you don't like my jackass analogy? I don't blame you. It's irrelevant, unless you think about it.
Blamin,
You proved it again! It’s not about style vs substance. It’s about fair and balanced. But, I see your difficulty in admitting. Partisan garbage always tastes better, Isn’t it?
vittal -
fair and balanced? You're joking...right? What part of this story has been presented in a "fair and balanced" way, by anybody, at anytime?
I find it amusing that you jump-on-the-bandwagon types are so quick to judge bias, when you have less than the whole story.
By the way, Libby faces prison, while Joe, who sould be facing a firing squad, walks free. And all is well in the lefty universe, hell, not just well but gleeful! Just goes to show how truley revolting many are on the left.
I agree – media is so biased in presenting this story. But it’s because of people like you who always want to hear what you want to hear. There are people on both sides of political spectrum craving for partisan garbage!
Full story? So, you think you know better than the court? You don’t think juries got the full story during the trial? Once again, you are the classic case of an individual blinded by ideology and too naïve to even acknowledge political spinning due to own your political inclinations.
Blamin,
No, the lefties are all mad because they were denied "Fitzmas". Rove, Bush, and Cheney are free and not indicted. They did not get what they wanted, a Coup D'Etat via the judiciary.
vital
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the BEAM that is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, cast out first the BEAM out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.
"But that's not the case here... Let's revisit shall we. What was it Libby did? He may have inadvertadly, outed, a desk jokey who was married to a man whom slandered and lied to congress, and a special commission of the senate, and the executive branch of the US, and actively put this country and it's citizens at risk ---- all for political gain, or payback, depending upon your take on the matter."
Blamin, you truly have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
"Blamin, you truly have no idea what you are talking about, do you?"
I think he sewed it up quite nicely. Libby was ajudged to have lied about a crime that wasn't committed. But he who had done that which Scooter was accused, Armitage, has not been so much as slapped on the wrist. And though Fitz knew Armitage was the leaker, he still insisted on nailing Libby to the wall. Maybe Savage is on to something.
Blamin,
WOW – you are really a ‘substance over style’ guy!! I am impressed!;)
You feel better now?
vital -
if the suit fits, wear it. Especially if seems it's tailor made just for you.
blamin said...
fair and balanced? You're joking...right? What part of this story has been presented in a "fair and balanced" way, by anybody, at anytime?
I'm sorry boys 'n girls on both sides, but walking into this thread virtually blind, and being an Independent, I do see what blamin' is saying here, and have to say that I whole-heartedly agree. First of all the media-at-bay is never fair and balanced in anything. I don't care what source you go to. There was so much sheer B.S. in the media that came out about a case that basically boiled down to nothing, that I have to say it drove me nuts, and made me to where I didn't know what to believe when. Because of that, still seeing more about it throughout the time, and seeing it still, I don't care any more, either.
To add to that, let's say hypothetically that Libby uncategorically is guilty. Who the hell cares? Has he done anything that any other politician in our country hasn't done??? I don't think so, from either party. It's just that someone down the line decided to pick this one out, and sensationalize the hell out of the whole deal. Why? Who cares. I'm just sick of it.
Dedanna,
Did you see that the Wilsons are moving to Alburquerque(SP?)?
Looks like N.M. is becoming like Wisconsin, an ultra Liberal Capitol city and a much more Conservative rest of the state.
Blamin dude,
Keep digging yourself deeper! You really look good! ;)
vital
Well, I'm a digging kind of guy; and coming from you I'd say it was a complement.
"You're digging a hole", he says - from the bottom of the hole.
PCD said...
Dedanna,
Did you see that the Wilsons are moving to Alburquerque(SP?)?
Looks like N.M. is becoming like Wisconsin, an ultra Liberal Capitol city and a much more Conservative rest of the state.
Nope, haven't heard that, but heard the other day that we were getting a family of about a mil by the name of Gonzales...... lol.
So, Dedanna, Clinton should never have been impeached, right?
wow, Jim actually made a good point...based on what dedanna said...good boy
Dedanna,
My bad, it was Santa Fe, not Alburquerque.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/08/washington/08valerie.html?ei=5090&en=924ac0d710fac331&ex=1331010000&adxnnl=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1173449090-g6onfsyzqiVFlxO9Uo/p/g
Jim,
Clinton should have been not only impeached, but removed from office for Lying to a Federal Judge, period.
"Marshall said, "But here's a few things to keep in mind. Libby was not "proven" guilty of lying, he was "judged" guilty. It's the opinion of the jury, which can be wrong."
Oh....My....God! This is spin in the first degree."
First of all, shame on you for taking the Lord's name in vain. Secondly, you've never, ever heard of an innocent man convicted? Are you serious? In case you were unaware, juries are made up of PEOPLE. People are HUMAN and subject to all sorts of mistakes and personal biases, which as we've learned, fits Collins and at least one other juror (from what I've heard and read).
Third, he was not the only one in the trial to say that he didn't remember something, yet, he was the only one not believed. They were determined to nail someone from the Bush admin and Libby's the only one they had a chance at. This trial was a joke. Can you say, "Presidential pardon"? If ever there was a good candidate for one, Libby is it. And a far better one than most, if not all, of those pardoned by Clinton on his way out.
Keep at it, Marshall. You will NEVER believe Libby lied. He could look you in the face and admit it and you would STILL not believe it.
Took the jury something like 10 days to determine beyond a reasonable doubt that Libby was guilty. Obviously a rush to judgment. Will you not hold any current or former member of the administration accountable for ANY wrong-doing?
The jails are filled with innocent people. At least they say they are innocent. You believe them, don't you Marshall? Or is it only Republics who are innocent?
Blamin,
Bottom of the hole, eh? Sure, you feel at home?
Keep digging...lets see how deep you can reach... ;)
I can't weld my shovel properly, someone keeps getting in my way.
Keep trying, don't give up....you have the right mindset!! ;)
God, all you guys missed it! I can't believe that shit!
Dedanna said...
PCD said...
Dedanna,
Did you see that the Wilsons are moving to Alburquerque(SP?)?
Looks like N.M. is becoming like Wisconsin, an ultra Liberal Capitol city and a much more Conservative rest of the state.
Nope, haven't heard that, but heard the other day that we were getting a family of about a mil by the name of Gonzales...... lol.
I wasn't even trying to bring Clinton or any political figure into anything. I wasn't even responding to anything about the original post!
I was only taking a dig at, making a joke, and a sarcastic remark, about all the illegal immigrants that we have in this sorry POS OF A STATE (well, maybe on the hicks in Arkansas, Texas, and other southern ones too. Just a little. ;)) !!!
Geeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz
Are you THAT dense????????
Jim said...
So, Dedanna, Clinton should never have been impeached, right?
Nope, that's not what I think. I think every goddamned politician since the get-go should've been impeached. Period. I'm sick of politicians, presidents, congressmen, senators, and anyone else who is so full of b.s. that it's not funny.
Actually, come to think of it, before they make that move concrete and definite, they really should talk to the Wilsons who are already here in NM who know Santa Fe really well (that is, *if* they can find them within the next week after weeding through all the Gonzales-es, Lopez-es, etc.)
Post a Comment