I am reading about the debate...a few comments:
This was written:
Obama said he would be willing to meet individually with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea during the first year of his presidency. "The notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them, which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration, is ridiculous," Obama said to applause.
Clinton immediately disagreed and said she would send envoys first to find out their intentions. "I don't want to be used for propaganda purposes," she said. Her campaign quickly posted the video on her Web site, trying to draw a distinction with her chief rival and show she has a different understanding of foreign policy.
This statement makes me believe Democrats might actually be unaware that they ARE used for propaganda purposes every single day. When they say we have already lost the war, Muslims throw that up on TV. When they continue to say they will get the troops out, Muslims love it and use it as a sign of hope. And Obama keeps showing he has no clue what he is talking about.
On another foreign policy topic, Biden said he would send 2,500 U.S. troops to Darfur to try to end the civil war there.
Oh ya? So to liberal Biden, its okay to send an insignificant amount of troops that can not actually do anything into the Darfur "civil war"...but the Iraq "civil war" does not need any troops. I think for some liberals they are afraid of success. They never want to come up with a strategy or plan that actually will end in something positive being accomplished.
She (Clinton) also refused to call herself a liberal. "I prefer the word progressive, which has a real American meaning ...," she said.
I wouldn't want to be called a liberal either.
Tuesday, July 24, 2007
Democratic debate
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28 comments:
It's way too early to call anyone Hillary's "chief rival". Most of Hillary's boosters would never consider voting for Obama in the primary, and vice versa.
The problem with all of this wingnut crap about "emboldening of our enemies" and "propaganda purposes" has utterly backfired, because it simply demonstrates how incompetent our leadership is, and how weak our military really is.
I don't believe sending troops to Darfur or getting involved in any sort of military intervention there is an answer, or any less foolish than sending our troops to Iraq was.
It will never happen at any rate, because there is no oil involved, being in Africa will not benefit Israel, and it's of no logistical value.
"I wouldn't want to be called a liberal either."
Yet you have no problem putting yourself forth as a neoconservative, who supports the Iraq occupation and accompanying genocide (650,000 innocent Iraqis murdered in cold blood, for a lie).
Besides hash being completely wrong on every single level...he adds this stuff to make him even more irrelevant:
wingnut crap
how weak our military really is- I do like to see hash show the liberal true colors...they hate the military...
neoconservative
650,000 innocent Iraqis murdered in cold blood, for a lie...
We need to keep anyone who thinks like hash out of office...
Since you have no problem w/the term moonbat, you have no leg to stand on.
I would venture a guess that Hash did not imply a hatred for the military or insinuate that it's inherently weak. Judging from his past comments, I assume his argument is that current administration policy has overstretched/weakened the military.
Andy,
Hash hates the military because they won't help him rob from the rich and place him in power. Hash also hates Israel with a passion.
I will agree he probably does hate Israel, since he brings up Israel in a negative tone every chance he gets...
What is wrong with Israel again?
All you need to understand is that the "war on terror" was based on a lie, and all of the pieces begin to come together (google "PNAC").
Game,
Hash hates Israel simply because it exists. He doesn't believe in Israel's right to exist. He's stated so many time on many boards.
Fudgie, first, you are lying (again), and, second of all, you have never seen that on any message board.
Game, I didn't realize you categorized all people who are critical of Israel as "Israel haters", because, if that is true, you are making value judgements about an awful lot of people.
Am I wrong in assuming that, in an environment apparently rich with so many "patriotic Americans", it is unreasonable to place the needs of the United States over the demands of Israel?
To quote someone that game and others here often quote in positive context:
What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then ... we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.
- John F. Kennedy 1960
Hash..I'm saying that you bring up Bush's defense of Israel in a bad light in MANY of your post...making me assume that you hate Isreal...if you didn't why is Bush defending them a bad thing like you make is sound over and over and over again?
Jim, the part where liberals care about peoples housing and health care and schooling is fine...but liberals do it the wrong way...they just throw money at the problem...which is the easy way out...
It seems to me that liberals are not willing to take the hard road.
With education, it would be requiring parents to show up at school events, teaching personal responsibility and self worth instead of blaming white racists.
In Iraq it means staying until the region is stable...which might take a long time...
But sometimes when you are incharge you might not have a good decision to pick from, but you have to pick the BEST decision you have available...and running away is not the BEST decision
"Hash..I'm saying that you bring up Bush's defense of Israel in a bad light in MANY of your post...making me assume that you hate Isreal.."
Game, do you have any state of being that falls anywhere between "I hate them" and "I totally submit to anything they want, and will "hand it over cheerfully?"
This is not diplomacy. It is foolish foreign policy rooted in bipolar disorder, American naivete, populist worship of John Wayne-esque lines in the sand, admiration for quick-and-dirty militaristic solutions without apology or shame, and misplaced guilt over past events that no one alive had a hand in creating.
And this foolish nature, coupled with an innate fear of being branded anti-Semitic, really horrible theology that corrupts and twists His Word, and a simple ignorance of history have all come together, to forge one of the most dysfunctional, co-dependent, overwrought, abusive national relationships ever known to mankind.
"...is Bush defending them a bad thing like you make is sound over and over and over again?"
Game, we are not talking about Bush "defending" anyone. We are talking about 3600 dead American troops (which, sadly, you consider a light loss of life), a pending genocide of almost a million innocent Iraqis by summer, a conflict that the Bush Crime Family has already admitted will widen to Syria, Lebanon, Iran, and even Turkey...
The stakes are just a tad higher than all the money we looted from the Iraqi treasury vaults, the thirty-year oil grabs, the Vatican-sized embassy compounds under construction in Baghdad, American troops so desperate not to return from leave, they are paying to have themselves shot in the leg.
This is just a bit more ominous than the non-existent "Islamofascists" you keep insisting are behind every curtain.
Again, please read the "Project For The New American Century" (also known as "the Clean Break memo", and see how this country was vortexed into this horrific, murderous maelstrom....and take note of the players on the scoreboard. Take note of the stated need of "a new Pearl Harbor", and start to connect the dots.
Should I welcome this apocalypse?
The policies you've endorsed have already brought about
Hash said:
We are talking about 3600 dead American troops (which, sadly, you consider a light loss of life), a pending genocide of almost a million innocent Iraqis by summer
Historically speaking, 3600 is very, very low. No one WANTS soldiers to die, but what is our military for? We elect someone President, and he decides how to protect us. The military is then used. If you think no one in the military should ever die, then we should just get rid of it and use all the money for more failed liberal social programs
oh, and there will only be a million Iraqis killed if your party gets its way. We can ONLY lose and only turn Iraq into a complete mess if Demcrats achieve their goals
Hash,
I challenged you on Radio Equalizer's board about your hate of Israel. I even invited you to go to the Hashemite Kingdom so that you can hate Israel up close and personal. You did not deny you hated Israel, but launched into another of your hate filled diatribes.
The only active political crime families in this country are the Kennedys and the Clintons.
"...but what is our military for?"
To guard and protect our own borders, and to shoot down anyone who intrudes, for one.
"We elect someone President, and he decides how to protect us."
But he's not protecting us. He is ENDANGERING us...and spending like a drunken sailor to do it, I might add.
"The military is then used. If you think no one in the military should ever die, then we should just get rid of it and use all the money for more failed liberal social programs"
The US military and the military industrial complex IS a failed social program.
"oh, and there will only be a million Iraqis killed if your party gets its way."
What party is "mine"?
If it were "my party", and we wouldn't be living in the Bush Crime Family's fascist dictatorship, you'd most likely be in a gulag right now.
I am a leftist, not a liberal.
I'm uninterested in peace and love, and playing bipartisan games.
"We can ONLY lose and only turn Iraq into a complete mess if Demcrats achieve their goals..."
You haven't turned it into a complete mess already?
Hash,
I really like Israel because they "kick butt" and don't sing Kum ba ya like most "leftists" want.
Our military is comprised of brave men and women who are defending your right to say your silly "leftist" remarks and wear your Che Guevera t-shirt. I am raising my kids to be tough because I can't expect the "leftists" to defend them. They just want to run away from a fight and yell "Mommy!"
"Our military is comprised of brave men and women who are defending your right..."
They're not defending ANYTHING of mine.
Hash, you simply have no clue what you are talking about or what is going on in the world around you. That is it, enough said.
Not even close, game.
And guess what?
I don't HAVE to fellate the troops or the president in order to be a citizen.
All I need to do is exist.
And pay my taxes.
And run my mouth until the end of time.
And my guess is that it kills you.
Okay, Hash is in super emotion crazy liberal mode...just look away everyone, nothing to see here...
Why not address the fact that the vast majority of Americans disagree with your positions, and you seem to indicate that they don't have the right?
Tell us why, instead of hurling insults.
Articulate yourself.
"Our freedoms have never been under so much assault as Republicans have stripped away from us, thanks to your irrational fears and greed."
Who is stripping away freedoms?
1. Let's bring back the Fairness Doctrine
2. ACLU - attack any freedom OF religion.
3. 1st Amendment - shut down talk radio because it informs people of what the congresscritters are REALLY up to.
4. 2nd Amendment - you shouldn't be allowed to protect yourself from thugs.
Just a few examples of what the left has been up to for the last 40 years or so.
Again, who is stripping freedoms?
Better put a little more of that 'hash' in your pipe....reality has passed you by!
ahhhhhh...
Someone thinking in reality and the real world...so refreshing to see.
I get so tired of moronic comments like:
"Our freedoms have never been under so much assault as Republicans have stripped away from us, thanks to your irrational fears and greed."
Thats just talking points that have basis in reality. I know my freedom to LIVE has been protected by GWB.
I'm kinda new here, but judging from Hashfanatic's comments on this and previous posts, I'll just take a wild guess that he's one of those kids who graduated High School absolutely certain that he'd make a million bucks a year playing professional beach volleyball...
Kate?
"1. Let's bring back the Fairness Doctrine"
Are you worried that conservative talk show hosts are such talentless hacks that they'd never be able to survive, if opposition were allowed?
"2. ACLU - attack any freedom OF religion."
Howzabout freedom FROM yours?
"3. 1st Amendment - shut down talk radio because it informs people of what the congresscritters are REALLY up to."
Well, no, dear, that's not what it would do, because only conservatard radio, sanctioned by the government itself, is presently permitted to thrive. It tells you lies and spreads misinformation, which is precisely all you are intellectually capable of handling, but others would like their points of view and concerns addressed as well.
"4. 2nd Amendment - you shouldn't be allowed to protect yourself from thugs."
Babe, I have no problem with guns...in fact, I ENDORSE your ownership of one, especially knowing that you'd probably be the first one to be shot by your attacker!
So, Kate, you see, you really have no clue about what the "Left" has in store for you.
Maybe you should go back to school?
Perhaps you were one of those "homeschooled" types, that couldn't handle school the first time around?
Liberals have tried to get into talk radio, no one likes it.
No one wants to listen to the complaining, hate Bush crap that people like hash bring here every day...
Just face it, liberal talk radio sucks and gets lower ratings than sports talk.
You can pretend and simply SAY that is not true, but the ratings prove it. If people wanted to listen to that crap, it would be on, period.
I know, I'm sorry...but hash says stupid thing after stupid thing over and over multiple times a day...it gets sickening...
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