Saturday, July 28, 2007

Liberals make their case

If the liberal argument was the better argument, why do liberals have to make up stories to pull on the emotional heart strings of Americans.
Ann Coulter exposed this trick in the Democratic "You Tube" debate.
The fake racism Obama doesn't experience.
The lie that Bush stole the election.
And today, the lie that Kathleen Vinehout had to tell to try and tout universal health care.
I want to post her first story in full, so you can feel sorry for her.

Until 1995, she was a professor of health care at the University of Illinois at Springfield.

But in 2005, Alma dairy farmer Kathleen Vinehout and her husband, Doug Kane, faced a tough decision: Should they pay $900 to $1,000 a month for their own family health insurance or to cover their farm expenses?
They went without the insurance. "It was very scary," Vinehout said.
It got scarier. Their 10-year-old son required an emergency appendectomy last fall, forcing the couple to take on debt to pay for the surgery.
Weeks later, Vinehout upset Sen. Ron Brown (R-Eau Claire) in the November election.
And the rookie senator now finds herself out front on the radical $15.2 billion universal health care plan being pushed by her fellow Senate Democrats.
"I need to do everything I can to make sure that every person in the state of Wisconsin has access to the same benefits that I have, as a legislator," she said.
Vinehout, 49, and her family went without health insurance for 23 months - a situation she says is not uncommon in rural areas of the state.
A few weeks before the election, Vinehout and Kane regretted that decision.
In September, Vinehout's husband called from a hospital emergency room in Wabasha, Minn., where physicians said their son, Nathan, needed surgery to remove his appendix.
Did they want the expensive tests and surgery to be done?
Yes, heal Nathan.
Nathan had the surgery, and is fine. The hospital first billed them $15,000 but settled for about $10,000. His parents refinanced the farm's mortgage to pay it.
When Vinehout tells the story now, her face reddens in anger at a health care system that leaves so many of her western Wisconsin neighbors without affordable insurance.
In the Capitol, Vinehout isn't shy about sharing her story. She voted with 17 other Democrats in the Senate to add the universal health care plan to the budget.

So, this poor woman had to choose between paying the farm bills and getting health care.
Then you read this story:

Senator made loan to her campaign while uninsured

So, she has $7,000 for her campaign, but no money for her family to have health insurance.
This shows a lot of tactics and the mentality of liberals.
1. She made a bad choice, decided not to have health care when she obviously could have, and now she wants to get very emotional when she has to suffer the consequences of her poor decisions.
2. Universal health care must not be a good enough idea on its merits, once again a liberal has to tell a story about how terrible life is, then spend seven grand to get elected to office. It shows a lack of responsibility and integrity. I guess something that doesn't affect Dem's.

I guess liberals believe that everyone should spend all their money anyway they see fit, the government will take care of all the things Americans used to be able to take care of on their own. Well, as long as we have liberals around offering more and more and more and more hand-outs, we will have more and more and more and more irresponsible people feeling they are able to act that way, because the Democratic party told them their situation was not their fault.

26 comments:

capper said...

So, liberals are always telling lies...

Well, Game,

1)Where's the nukes in Iraq?
2)Where's the WMDs in Iraq?
3)Where's the quick and easy victory in Iraq?
4)Where's the tax cuts for everyone Bush promised?
5)When is bin Laden's trial?
6)Where is bin Laden?
7)Why were those US attorneys fired, even after receiving glowing reviews?
8)What did Gonzo ask Ashcroft, while Ashcroft was in a hospital bed, if it wasn't about wiretapping?
8b)Why was there a memo stating Gonzo asked Ashcroft about wiretapping?
9)Why didn't Bush fire Armitage and Rove for being involved in leaking Plame's name, after he said he would fire anyone involved in leaking Plame's name?
10)Why did Cheney say he wasn't part of the executive branch?

After you get to these, there's only a few thousand more.

The Game said...

Capper, of course, does not comment on the main point of the post, because he must know the main point is correct...and it is...now, to try and get through all his stupid comments that are all wrong.
First, Capper, I lie is when someone KNOWS something is not true and says it anyway.

number one and two...the entire WORLD had the same intel and we have found WMD's a few different times...so unless the ENTIRE WORLD was lying, it was not a lie...I win.
3. Show me where Bush or anyone said Iraq would be quick and easy. In fact, there are many speeches where he says the opposite...I win.
4. We all got a tax cut. I win..This is easy.
5. Who said there was a trial, making that statement a lie...I win
6. What is the lie there? Is he dead? Is the fact that people say he is NOT dead the lie?

You know what...I'm just going to stop now...this doesn't even warrant a response.
Capper, and I guess most liberals:
1. Can not focus on the point, because they are wrong
2. Don't know what the word lie means.

Can anyone comment on the point of the post...I bet not.

Jim said...

Game, again you haven't read the entire article. You only read the first paragraph or two that might support your world view and as usual completely ignore any explanation that contradicts it.

The Game said...

Okay, what in the article changes the fact that she claimed to not be able to afford health coverage then donate to her campaign?

The Game said...

You talking about the money she got from her mother? IN 2005...could have used that for health coverage...right Jim?

capper said...

Here we go:

1 and 2)Bush did not reveal the US intelligence reports until after the war started, stating that they thought the claims of nukes and the allegations by "Curveball" were fabrications. Not to mention the UN inspectors that said there were none. You're down two.

3) Try this, especially this quote, "Would "liberating" Iraq really be a "cakewalk," as Ken Adelman, former U.S. arms control director, has claimed? Oh, oh, Game's down three.

4)The GAO reported that most middle income Americans saw a tax hike. My own federal taxes went up $400 while salaries stagnated.

5 & 6)Bush said he would make bin Laden his priority until he brings him to justice.

The point, Game, is just because you don't agree, doesn't make it a lie. Also, the right lies as much, if not more, than the left.

Game over. You ain't that damn good.

capper said...

'bout the article now. Are you saying that because you feel Vinehout made a bad decision, that means that there are no people that need help with their medical care?

And how do you feel about corporate welfare, like bailouts or TIFs? Shall we put a stop to those? I know my taxes would go down if business and non-profits like hospitals and churches were made to pay their fair share.

The Game said...

See, that is terrible. You really believe its coorperations that make our taxes higher?
Wow
Not the millions of illegal immigrants who flood our schools and health care system.
Not all the people who didn't feel like working hard in school and now have no skills.
Your more mad at coorperations who are the ones GIVING people jobs.

Anonymous said...

Game,

I agree with you on personal responsibilty. She was wrong for ignoring the health coverage. There are consequences to your choices.

But, I don't understand why the costs should be as high as $1000 per month. Do you support it?

And, I was reading your answers to questions raised by Capper. Again, I feel sorry for you. It clearly shows how you have your head stuck in sand.

Yes, many countries had the same intelligence. But, did they go and bomb a country based on the intelligence? War is a very serious stuff and one should have solid proof before attacking another country. The arrogance and stupidity of current administration have led us to this pathetic scenario in Iraq.

I'm sure you don't see it because Rush/Sean didn't tell you this - Did they???

The Game said...

no one WANTS coverage to cost a 1,000 bucks a month, but your solution is to ruin health care for everyone...read the story below about Canadian health care.

Otherwise, you guys are simply showing you don't understand what the word lie means.

blamin said...

Wow Game,

The posters above are having a tough time staying on subject.

You would think with health care being such a hot-button issue, your antagonist would address the excellent points you've raised in your last two stories.

Instead we get from Capper "Are you saying that because you feel Vinehout made a bad decision, that means that there are no people that need help with their medical care?"

Now that's really deep! I didn't realize that's what you were actually saying Game, perhaps I missed something in your comments.

Then we get from Jim a complaint about the cost of health care. I think milk, gas, and Twinkies cost too much, I guess government should take control and administer dairy farms, oil and food companies.

Hell, why stop there! Lets just create a huge, country wide compound. The gov't can take the results of all our labors and redistribute as they see fit. Yaaaa, that's the ticket! Then we'd have much less to worry about, because after all, we all know how efficient and fair our government is.

I've a vision, I've seen Utopia!!! The citizens of America having all their decisions, wants, and needs taken care of by bureaucrat's! ( I still haven't figured out how we're going to choose and have oversight over these people. After all we're obviously incapable of caring for ourselves.) Why, the decrease in stress alone, is worth the abandoning of personal freedoms!

Seriously, any discussion about what needs to be done with the problems of health care in this country ought to at least take a hard, honest look at the negative consequences other countries are having with "solutions" suggested by some in this country.

With the thousands of areas the government has stuck their pudgy, unconstitutional fingers into, the success stories are sicking-ly few.

For the life of me, (especially after the howling the left has done about the Bush admin and terrorist surveillance), I don't understand why those on the left wish us to keep taking incremental steps toward total socialism?

The Game said...

Liberals just want to feel good about trying to do something about health care....obviously they don't care that they will infact destroy health care in this country and make it look like my previous post on Canadian health care (which no liberal has gone and defended)...

Jim said...

Then we get from Jim a complaint about the cost of health care.

Gee, Blamin' I read every word I wrote on this page (all 32 of them) and I can't see anywhere in which I mentioned the cost of health care or complained about anything other than game citing something that he doesn't read all the way through.

And in my state, the government DOES regulate the cost of milk.

blamin said...

Game,

They've seen the light ala Mickey Moore. Why should they waste their time with actual real life examples, when Mr. Mickey has shown them one side of the argument. That's good enough for those that champion socialism, why isn't it good enough for you? Oh that's right, you don't care!

Anonymous said...

Blamin,

Did you watch Michael Moore's movie? Or...still waiting for green signal from Ann Coulter? So...what he showed in the movie are not real life examples?

Do you have any solutions for lowering the healthcare cost other than 'more of the same'?? Just curious.

blamin said...

American,

I read synopsises of his movie by both supporters and detractors, then I read Moore's response to his detractors, which was essentially a non-response, just self righteous indignation. Which speaks volumns.

No, I don't have a solution to this extremely complex problem. That doesn't mean I or others shouln't demand that "any discussion about what needs to be done with the problems of health care in this country ought to at least take a hard, honest look at the negative consequences other countries are having with the "solutions" suggested by some in this country."

Why do people on your side of the debate wish to dismiss such valid concerns, while making snide comments about peoples capacity for caring?

It appears Game's conclusion about your motives are accurate.

JIM, I apologize, "American" was the author of the whine I quoted (which is a legitimate whine, just not justification for what he's advocating).

BTW the governmet allready "regulates" much of the health care industry, what we're debating here is wholesale "takeover", which is not the case with milk in your state.

capper said...

American-

Of course, blamin' and game have no answers. That is why they try to ridicule liberals, deny suggestions, and generally make fools out of themselves with their hysterical and histrionic diatribes. They have to cover their own shortcomings.

The Game said...

I see a lot of solid comments and thought, then capper wanders here and says absolutely nothing

Anonymous said...

So...you didn’t watch the movie, right? There is no surprise here!

“Why do people on your side of the debate wish to dismiss such valid concerns…” – It sounds more like your side that wouldn’t even see the movie before forming an opinion on it! Think about it.

Yes, I am worried about the healthcare costs and the coverage. I agree with the personal responsibility and healthy life style. However, we can’t control everything about our body. Do you have anyone in your family who has pre-existing conditions like diabetes? Try getting healthcare coverage; you will understand what I am talking about.

You don’t have any solutions? There is no surprise here either!!

Jim said...

Liberals just want to feel good about trying to do something about health care....obviously they don't care that they will infact destroy health care in this country and make it look like my previous post on Canadian health care (which no liberal has gone and defended)...

Of course, blamin' and game have no answers. That is why they try to ridicule liberals, deny suggestions, and generally make fools out of themselves with their hysterical and histrionic diatribes. They have to cover their own shortcomings.

The Game said...

This doesn't even make sense. Jim throws personal attacks when I showed how the liberal answer to "fixing" health care is worse than doing nothing at all.
This is a very complicated issue that can not be solved by having the government run it, proven by my actual links of fact that you have not been able to comment on...so come back when you know what the hell you are talking about.

blamin said...

jim, capper, american

Just because I don't have the answer, doesn't mean I can't question potential solutions.

To suggest otherwise is sophistry at its highest form.

Jeez...

blamin said...

We have one of the greatest health care systems in the world, where no citizens (and most non-citizens) are denied medical care. Most have access to free preventive care at various health clinics and the poorest in this country have Medicare.

Its been shown countless times that when Libs start throwing around statistics about the "uninsured” many are people that choose not to have health insurance.

Yes there are some who fall through the cracks, that’s why there’s room for improvement, rather than allowing one of the most inefficient and unresponsive form of organization “take over” what is already one of the best.

Imagine the movie that could be made about U.S. health care if the success stories were trumpeted and the problems whitewashed. Why, if Moore produced it, the automatons would be screeching at any suggestion of change.

Jim said...

Jim throws personal attacks.

Gee, I read every word I've written on this post and for the life of me I can't find a single phrase that could be remotely considered a personal attack. All I did was quote you and another person.

Or did you go to the Bill O'Reilly school of logic where quoting a person is the equivalent of a smear? (and that's as close as I'll ever get to a personal attack)

The Game said...

Way to focus on that line instead of the liberal losing argument.

Jim said...

What, I'm supposed to ignore a false accusation against me?