Remember, this is a STIMULUS package...
So why is 30% of the "stimulus" package going to people who don't pay any taxes?
How is giving them 300 bucks going to help the economy?
How does taking from the people who pay all the taxes and giving it to people who make almost no money and pay no taxes help the economy?
Then you have Dems who want more food stamps and unemployment added in...
How does that help the economy?
I know, I know...you have to keep buy votes Dems, keep more and more people dependant on you...but for those who actually care about the betterment of this country and the SUCCESS of its people, giving more hand-outs does nothing...
They did give some tax cuts for business, yes, those evil souls who give people jobs.
If you really want to stimulate the economy, you make the Bush tax cuts permanent, cut taxes even more, and get more people less dependant on the federal government.
Thursday, January 24, 2008
Tax Rebates Deal Announced
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24 comments:
WOW!! Another master piece by your master, uh?
Well...this just explains why you say the stuff you do over here!
You conviniently ignore George Bush's involvement in this, uh? No surprise though! ;-)
The 'stimulus' plan is so stupid - this is just an extention of 'more spending' by our govt. However, this is going to help China for sure because most of this money would flow back to China!
Bush did not propose to give money to dead beats. He is doing that great partisan crap you guys drill him for not doing.
what happened to the "free market"?
the entire plan is a bad idea, which is precisely why we can expect it to be done
republicans are like drunken sailors
game, this is so simple, even you should be able to figure it out. the purpose of the tax rebates is to give it to people WHO WILL SPEND IT. if they spend it, they are buying goods and services. goods and services means people working and producing and spending THEIR money further stimulating the economy. it's the opposite of trickle down.
I'm doing to pay down my equity loan with mine. that'll probably do a lot less for the economy than the same amount given to someone who didn't pay taxes, because they are much more likely to SPEND it. see above.
I was agreeing with you til the end. This plan is total bunkum, regardless of who's idea it is.
Bush tax cuts..ya how are those working out? Seems to me the economy is tanking. Yes, I know there are other factors but if your only idea is cut taxes then you have few ideas and have not thought this through at all. Cut taxes, over and over and over again is not a plan, it's a bumper sticker. ..
you want people off government assistance?
Give people,that are WILLING to work(I know many people and virtually none are opposed to working) jobs that pay people a decent wage. You know, reward them for their effort instead of asking them for everything and getting little in return. The redistribution of our wealth to the already wealthy must end if we are all to have a shot at the American dream. If one is willing to work then they ought to be able to make a decent living. There are fewer and fewer jobs that make it possible anymore. Two incomes are almost a necessity for a family. Thats not right. At one time(within my lifetime) if a girl got pregnant a guy could go to work at the gas station and support his family. Can't do that now.
It's not about the pittance the poor,or the lazy as you see them, get from the government that is the problem. it is the business climate that makes it impossible to work and make a decent living. It is all the low priced illegal low wage labor flooding into the country depressing the wage base. There are many factors here.
There is much to do and to just say tax cut is a total cop out used by people that are to shallow to think.
I can agree that tax cuts alone aren't the answer, but the fact that the gas station man can't make a decent income I can't agree with.
If he feels entitled to his cell phone, bumpin ride, and big screen then he should WORK to rise above.
If he CHOOSES to stay where he is at, then he will not be compensated for poor choices. Poor choices do not entitle him to gov't assitance.
Just getting a job at a gas station has never been enough to support an entire family, then or now.
ANON's comments about spending are true. They feel entitled to get money they didn't earn to buy things they feel they deserve for their "hard" work.
These are not people willing to work.
As is the case usually, liberal policy rewards those who do nothing and make bad choices and punished those who are responsible and work hard so they can take care of themselves.
So why is 30% of the "stimulus" package going to people who don't pay any taxes?
-Because poor people are more likely to spend it quickly, thus stimulating the economy
How is giving them 300 bucks going to help the economy?
-Because they will spend it, increasing consumer spending, which is the main driver of our economy
How does taking from the people who pay all the taxes and giving it to people who make almost no money and pay no taxes help the economy?
-Because the people who make the most money are saving most of it, which does little to help economic growth
Then you have Dems who want more food stamps and unemployment added in...
-Yes, because food stamps and unemployment do not require the IRS bureaucracy to distribute the money, and therefore they are able to distribute the funds much more quickly than waiting for the IRS to finish processing all of our refunds to start cutting checks for this. How does that help the economy?
@game - How exactly is this "punishing" anyone? Not being a business owner, I don't expect you to understand, but helping to "prime the pump" with this giveaway will provide a needed boost to consumer spending, which is the prime economic engine in this country
ridiculous, with an almost worthless dollar and no significant gains realized, its mere window dressing
typical republican fiscal mismanagement, in other words
they spend like drunken sailors
Ace: How old are you? I ask because my uncle at one time owned a gas station and he had employees that provided for their families on that job. Late 50s early 60s. It was possible,I saw it with my own eyes so don't try to tell me different.
People don't have unlimited choices. This is an example of the shallow thinking I am talking of. Some people are smart, some are not. Just like some are vocationally skilled and some are not. Your one size fits all is a fantasy. Why are you not a corporate CEO or a rocket scientist? Why are you not a pro athlete? This is why good paying manufacturing jobs are so important. Many of these people that used to make a decent living and support their families can't anymore. The number of family supporting jobs are out numbered by the people that WOULD joyfully take them.
The number of people that feel entitled to sit around and collect money for doing nothing is minuscule compared to the people willing to work. If you disagree then you have much less respect for the American Spirit than I have.
That is a separate issue anyway. I specifically mentioned people WILLING to work knowing you guys would try to rationalize this away with the "lazy bums" line..... Just like you did anyway. It's myopic thinking that has become predictable from the radical right.
ron, it is predictable that liberals like you belive that the government is the economy and that all money flows from entitlement programs.
PCD, please show me where I said anything of the kind. I spoke of people WILLING to work that can't make enough to support a family. Once you face that fact we can talk about solutions. I have many and none reward people that aren't working or contributing to the common good.
Unfortunately you read into things what you want and assume things that couldn't be farther from the truth...This is why I have little respect for you. You don't even address peoples points. You don't seem to understand what others are saying. You just blindly jawbone talking points.
You just want a fight and you will never step out of your frame to grow. Your ideas and beliefs have been stunted from lack of exercise. You seem hopeless.
Let me ask you...Is there such thing as greed? If so where does it start, how does your giant brain know it when it sees it?
ron,
Greed is demonstrated by Liberals who don't work for the "Boons" from Government they desire. Greed is demonstrated by liberals, such as yourself, who demand that government take from those who have to give to you who have chosen to not work like they did for what they have.
Ron,
30
The gas station clerk could raise a family? The one who stood behind the counter all day and just rang up purchases.
I'd say the skilled technicians that applied themselves, and chose to spend wisely could have supported a family. Either way it's a choice.
Bottom line is we are building an entitled class with this kind of action, not to be conflicted with a deserving class.
You do have a choice to direct your life. The pro athletes are born with natural ability or choose to work and train hard. Further they choose to foster that gift. They could just as easily choose to forgo those talents. The CEO also chooses to apply him or herself when another direction would be an easier choice.
The character I represented in my previous post is not entitled to a handout. He makes a series of bad choices, most likely taught from an "entitled" upbringing.
We agree that people "willing" to work might be a fair target for this type of action. But characterizing that group as "willing to spend" is the flaw. Are they really able to spend that money?
Sure they can buy something new and shiny while still falling behind on other $$ obligations, inflating the ecomomic picture in the short-term, while underneath the problem is not solved.
Getting back to the original post: tax-cut good, audience bad, need more than tax cuts to really fix the problem.
wow....perfect
Ace, we are debating 2 different things. I said at the beginning that I agreed the entire plan was bunkum. I have no desire to give anyone to lazy to work anything. I'm opposed to giving anybody anything. The so called stimulus plan is all candy, it's not a grown up answer to our problems. Repubs and Dems are both at fault for supporting this.
I happen to think that only small and medium small businesses should get the little bribe and I think they should only get it if they use it to help increase and pay for salaries. The money should come from the tax breaks of giant corporations who don't need a tax break. You know the country does have bills to pay don't you? You do consider yourself fiscally responsible don't you? I can't discuss the entire plan here and I am sure the incompleteness of my comments will lead you to find holes that don't exist if you would walk step by step through it like I tried in vain to get you guys to do.. ... My point, that you have totally missed, is that a few lazy Americans is not the overriding problem with our economy. I don't approve of lazy but every country, rich and poor have them. I think our country has fewer than most.I believe in the people of the United States..why do you hate Americans?
I have been trying patiently to drive the conversation forward but you guys are stuck in your talking points and are anxious to join your masters in focusing on the poor so we don't end up exposing the super rich. To bad for you. You will all be left behind.
pcd, your views on me reflect reality not a whit and I am sure your definition of greed would be seen as seriously lacking in anything but partisan bluster. I expected it from you though. I know how you think much better than you know how I think. That is because I have an open mind and you only see what you want to see. It is obvious to any semi conscious person in just this thread.
Ace,
I've been thinking about this and want to try again to nicely make myself understandable. I know I sometimes fall into the snark trap that is so prevalent in our society today. I'm sorry. I come to this blog occasionally and I have a certain amount of respect for everyone that posts here except one person. Guess who? :-) Everyone here (except for p....that one) seems to have the proper motives even if I adamantly disagree with their solutions, or lack of them most of the time.
I see our problem as there are not as many jobs that pay a wage one could raise a family on as there are people to do it. So even with a perfect world and everyone working it would not solve the problem of the fact that the majority of jobs are not 40 to 50 thousand dollar a year jobs. Even if everyone worked their ass off, the good jobs are in a far more limited quantity than the shitty low pay ones.. How many people do you know with college degrees(and college debt to go with it) that find it very difficult to make a raise a family living in their chosen field? Two income households is the only way to go these days. Which means there is no parent in the house. But we have no choice in most cases.
I know your folks probably told you, like mine told me, work hard, be a good employee and you will succeed...or the cream always rises to the top. At one time that was likely true. Not anymore. With corporate mergers and economies of scale and all that hogwash a guy near the top may be at the bottom tomorrow, a faithful employee may lose his job and pension then be forced to take another for less money out of desperation and lose his house in the process. A hard working small business owner may be squashed when Walmart comes to town. A veteran may come home from war with serious needs that go unmet and no job to return to.
We all do what we have to do and if your experience has been that hard work and being good at what you do has made you successful, consider yourself one of the lucky ones and not the norm. For example thousands or millions of very skilled athletes never make it to the big bucks. That was the one size fits all fantasy that I am talking about.
I am not a big fan of welfare, personal or corporate. I do know though that being lazy is only one of many factors that may lead to a person being poor. I work hard, I have impeccable references(the ones I can still find!) I am poor. I don't have a cell phone and I have a 12 thousand dollar car that is almost paid off. I have 2 children that get over 30% of my after tax income in child support. I get no head of household, no deductions beyond standard for anything. I PAY TAXES, just like you do. I'm not complaining about being poor. I am not good at networking and that is a huge part of rising to the top. I understand my fault in the whole thing. I chose a life of moving every few years, meeting all kinds and seeing the country. That is my reward..freedom. It is my choice. I'm one of those old codgers now(52). I have seen the country and I have met all kinds.
I get very upset when people are mean and uncaring to the poor and treat them like white trash or black trash or lazy bums. Sometimes that is the case but far less than it is pushed in our common physcie(sp). Some of them are just not the type that would make a good fit for a 40 or 50 thousand dollar a year job. Most of them work hard, most of them harder and with less of a sense of entitlement and less complaining about their circumstance than the more affluent people I have met. If you went out and worked everyday and did the best you could but still couldn't meet the rent or lost your house your view point on the whole deal might change dramatically. I work hard on principal, and because I enjoy my work, and to survive. Not because I have any illusions of “making it” or being rich. The odds are stacked against ya son unless you want to kiss lots of ass on the way up and beg on the way down. Some people won't play that game. That doesn't make them dregs and worthy of all the smears and derision they put up with everyday. I don't care what Barack Obama or Mitt Romney says, there are two Americas and that is a sad thing. When we get back to rewarding hard work instead of paying it lip service then we will be making progress toward wiping that out. Once we agree on that then we can start figuring out just how we do it. It's called group problem solving and lordy do we as a country need to learn how to do that again.
Please excuse me for my outbursts of snarkyness(except for the one who deserves it.... over and over again in spades.)
I have some thoughts on my blog should you be interested. Click on my name to hunt it up.
Ron, my ADD kicked in on your post, so I can only comment on the first few points.
Well done making your points,none of them are "wrong" but I'm not so sure what to do about them either.
Yes, some college grads spend some time in crappy low paying jobs out of college, that is because more people graduate from college...supply and demand. It is an unintended negative of more people going to college.
The people who choose not to graduate from HS or not learn anything while they are there, well, they might have gotten a factory job in the past, but those are gone now.
And you don't HAVE TO make both parents work, you just have to decide to buy less crap that you don't need.
That is all for now, not trying to disagree, just throwing in my two cents.
And you don't HAVE TO make both parents work, you just have to decide to buy less crap that you don't need.
Quite true and what all poor people do. We know how.
some do...the ones who think the money they get from the govt is their god given right, they spend it on what they WANT, then bitch that they can't buy what they NEED
some do...the ones who think the money they get from the govt is their god given right, they spend it on what they WANT, then bitch that they can't buy what they NEED
You are making a mountain out of a mole hill Game. I am not for giving those that won't work anything. The vast majority of all people agree with that so I don't know who you are trying to convince?
It appears to me, true or not, that you(and many on the right) have a self righteous view and a visceral hate of the poor. Yes there are a few lazy bums. Sorry the entire world isn't perfect. I have no more respect for those people than you do. The percentage of people who are lazy, suck off the government teat, complainers, is very small out of our full population. I know no one like this right now and have maybe known a dozen or less in my lifetime. Regardless, it's not like those on government aid are living the good life.
The rich who get giant tax breaks when they already have ways to pay less than you and me are a lot bigger percentage of the population. No complaining from you there.
The corporations who get government gifts take far more of your tax dollars than the poor do. No complaining from you there. The billions of dollars that have gone just missing in Iraq merit nary a mention on your blog yet you can chastise those that get a few hundred dollars. The rich and corporations deserve government money but the poor don't. Why do you hate Americans so much and why do you get so EMOTIONAL over this issue. (Yes, I get quite emotional and am not a bit ashamed of it).
The grouping of all poor people as lazy bums is reprehensible in wildly inaccurate and the radical right attitude towards them is not the least bit moral.
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