1. You have to be against capital punishment, butsupport abortion on demand.
2. You have to believe that businesses createoppression and governments create prosperity.
3. You have to believe that guns in the hands oflaw-abiding citizens are more of a threat than nuclearweapons technology in the hands of Iran or Chinese andNorth Korean communists.
4. You have to believe that there was no art beforefederal funding.
5. You have to believe that global temperatures areless affected by cyclical changes in the earth'sclimate and more affected by soccer moms drivingSUV's.
6. You have to believe that gender roles areartificial, but being homosexual is natural.
7. You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spreadby a lack of federal funding.
8. You have to believe that the same teacher who can'tteach 4th-graders how to read is somehow qualified toteach those same kids about sex.
9. You have to believe that hunters don't care aboutnature, but PETA activists do.
10. You have to believe that self-esteem is moreimportant than actually doing something to earn it.
11. You have to believe the NRA is bad because itsupports certain parts of the Constitution, while theACLU is good because it supports certain parts of theConstitution.
12. You have to believe that taxes are too low, butATM fees are too high.
13. You have to believe that Margaret Sanger andGloria Steinem are more important to American historythan Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, or AbrahamLincoln.
14. You have to believe that standardized tests areracist, but racial quotas and set-asides are not.
15. You have to believe that the only reason socialismhasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because theright people haven't been in charge.
16. You have to believe that homosexual paradesdisplaying drag queens and transvestites should beconstitutionally protected, and manger scenes atChristmas should be illegal.
17. You have to believe that this message is a part ofa vast, right-wing conspiracy.
GOD BLESS AMERICAOops, can't do that either
Friday, January 12, 2007
17 WAYS TO BE A GOOD LIBERAL
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41 comments:
Oh, I can't WAIT for the responses to this one.
Scorpion says---
Maybe I'm too early this morning to
enjoy the "jumbled" replys that this should bring in responses.
Game, sorry but I need a break from the insanity. You know much of this has nothing to do with the truth, and if you don't you have been seriously deluded. I am a liberal and I don't believe most fo this stuff. All the hyperbole and pcd totally ignoring any comment I make just so he can call me evil makes dialouge useless and impossible for the time being...good luck
Ron, Liberalism as practiced in the US by Democrats is EVIL.
Ron,
Sounds like a cop-out to me. Too bad, I enjoy the discussions, the only thing I can tell you, is if you believe someone to be unreasonably combative, ignore them.
As to Game’s list, for the most part it seems pretty accurate. Some items more than others perhaps (as far as the amount of people on the left that hold a particular belief), but all have one thing in common - that is powerful people on the left, believing, supporting, and actively promoting these beliefs. Again, some more than others.
Truly insane!!!
Can you post one for Conservatives as well? Or, you have time only for complaining about liberals? :)
vittal,
Looking at your website, you wouldn't be pleased with anything less than a rehash of the Kow rants against Conservatives. For that go there.
Here's one the game missed.
Liberals believe that only US Conservatives are evil, and that Saddam, Marx, Lenin, and Stalin were misunderstood and deserved their power.
PCD,
I tried to access your blog...and alas - 404-Page not found error!!! Ummm...
I wish you had a blog too so I could understand why you like this kinda insane, partisan stuff.
Yes, I don't like fake conservatives (and liberals). So, what? Go figure!
pcd--
Marx never got close to power. Marx was a loafer and a moocher, the Noam Chump-sky of his time, except without the government largesse funding his revolutionary activities.
Great stuff, and you're linked, thanks!
absurd thought -
God of the Universe loves
liberal moonbats...
.
Here you go vittal:
To be a "Conservative" you must believe:
Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals, Arabs, and Hillary Clinton.
Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney and Rumsfeld did business with him, and a bad guy when Bush couldn't find Bin Laden.
Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is Communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.
The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.
A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.
The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches, while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.
If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.
A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle and antagonize our long-time allies, then demand their cooperation and money.
Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy, but providing health care to all Americans is socialism.
HMOs and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at heart.
Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.
A President lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense, but a President lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.
Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.
The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's and Dick Cheney's driving records are none of our business.
Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.
Supporting "Executive Privilege" is imperative for every Republican ever born, who will be born or who might be born in perpetuity.
What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80s is irrelevant.
C'mon Ron, lighten up. Most of the list is accurate in it's underlying theme. Certainly not all 17 are traits of every lib, but overall each is a good wager to elicit a yes response from any lib on the street (if phrased in a more serious manner).
I honestly believe that most on the right more accurately describe the positions of those on the left than the other way around. There's a guy on WLS-AM in Chicago who once had a talk show on Sat and now just does news (at least that's all I've heard him do lately). I can't recall his name right now, but he once read his list of "ten things you had to believe to be a conservative". I tried calling in but couldn't get through. I wanted to tell him that it sounds more like "ten things you have to believe ABOUT conservatives to be a liberal." They did not match anything any conservative I knew or listened to or read from believed. But it did match the same accusations we always here from libs. For example, one on the list had to do with the tired old support for the rich at the expense of the poor, which is easily debunked. Another was a slam on Christians which really torched my ass. In any case, they were all stereotypes that didn't mesh with reality. Game's list, on the other hand, is dead on in many points, like #1 & 2, and real close on others like #4. Others are tongue in cheek or sarcastic expressions of the frustration with lib positions, like #7. Obviously no one believes a lack of funding spreads AIDS. But it is the libs among us that claim that more funding is needed to combat the spread, mainly because they don't want to face the reality that promiscuity is what spreads it.
So sure, take a break if you really feel you need it. It's only a blog for pete's sake. But like Blamin said, if you don't like the tone or style of a commenter, ignore him. Me, I like to debate the smart and respectful libs and war with the assholes. Frankly, I don't find any assholes here (though everyone has their days), just wacky points of view. But that's what it's all about. The good debates hold the possibility of persuasion and education and even the goofiest threads can provide either. It's the best thing about visiting blogs. At least it is to me. Come back soon. (as if I own the joint)
Whadya know? As I was typing, Jim slipped in the perfect example of what I was talking about. Let's examine a few. He didn't number them but I will to respond.
#1 Jesus loves everyone but hates homosexual behavior and when Arabs hack off people's heads. He hates any behavior that is contrary to the Will of God.
#2 Conservatives understand that in foreign affairs, it is sometimes necessary to align ourselves with or do business with evil people if it is believed doing otherwise would be harmful to our interests.
#3 See #2.
#4 Not every conservative believes we should get out of the UN. Most believe it is currently fucked up and with ambassadors like John Bolton, we stand a chance of not getting boned. Enforcing resolutions against Iraq was necessary and we're thankful we had a president with the balls to do it. (But it's a debatable point even amongst conservatives)
#5 A woman is free to do what she wants with her body, even despoil herself with as many men as she wants, but she has no ownership or God-like decision making powers over the life of the child she, by her actions, invited into existence, unless bringing it to term threatens her life. Multi-national corps, or any company for that matter, is subject to regulation and even criminal penalties when their actions are proven to be harmful to people, not assumed to be.
#6 Not informed enough on this topic to comment.
#7 Condoms in school give students, who should be encouraged, admonished and fully informed to avoid sex before marriage, a false sense of security against the threat of pregnancy and disease.
#8 What's this about? Pundits belittle those allies who won't join the cause due to having their hand in the same oil for food scam as Sadam, but conservative politicians? Not so sure. And I believe we've requested assistance, not demanded it.
#9 We've provided more than that for Iraqis and have done as much for the people of every country we've bested in battle, exposing as stupid the accusation that we're a bullying occupier out to suck all their assets. Such is temporary until their government and economy regain self-sufficiency. Universal health care IS socialism.
-I'm gettin' tired-
#10 I'm sure they think they do. What's your point? Are you sure the concept of insurance was started by a conservative? I know as a conservative myself that I think libs have a problem with them making money. I guess they believe insurance companies should just be charitable organizations that should cover everything no matter what. You know, sell homeowner's insurance to a guy whose house is on fire. Who's gonna pay for that?
#11 Cons think global warming is a cyclical phenomenon of nature and that the science that "proves" it's all due to man-made reasons is bunk. We think the science "proving" second hand smoke causes cancer is suspicious because it's been debunked and not duplicated (from what I understand--I don't care, I quit smoking tobacco over two years ago-love the smell). We believe evolution (macro, not micro) is not even close to proven and that creationism is another possibility. Some believe God used a form of evolution in Creation. Quite a few do in fact. Many also believe that the liberal infatuation with evolution is due to their desire to ignore God and be their own gods. The more they explain things scientifically, the easier it is to assume there is no God. Try and debate THAT one.
#12 A president lying under oath during an investigation is an impeachable offense (and can cost you your law license). Now if we could only impeach those libs who insist on perpetrating the lie about Bush lying to get us into war...
#13 Conservatives believe, make that KNOW, there's nothing in the Constitution that mandates the state sanctions any relationship beyond the traditional definition of marriage. Same as #6 for the internet.
#14 Were it ANYONE else, investigation for insider trading would be relentless. Why the fuck would anyone care about George's or Dick's driving record?
#15 Being a substance abuser IS a moral failing, but not a crime. Buying, possessing, distributing illegal substances or aquiring scrips illegally is a crime. Though he deserves a degree of scorn, it's not like Rush was a coke addict. His addiction to prescription pain killers was due to his need for them for a medical condition, a situation unfortunately all to common. But because he's Rush, libs do not afford him the same consideration they give to others who fall prey to the same or even to the coke-head.
#16 We support such for any president and attack ANY who abuse it. Bush hasn't done this.
#17 What are you talking about?
man, I'm glad there wasn't twenty.
May I say that I'm really getting to hate Blogger.
what is wrong with blogger...
and Ron must have had a bad day at work...he gives posts like that from time to time...but it would be nice to have an actual debate...I think MOST of those points are dead on and clever...
Jim comes in and ignores the post and comes up with his own...I'll tell you the ones I thougt were atleast clever:
Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is Communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.
(if you would have left off the end it would have been better)
The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.
The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches, while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.
(I cant believe you have the balls to write that after your girl Hilary and other losers say they don't want to fund the war anymore) Damn it are you stupid
If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.
A President lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense, but a President lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.
(actually, this one is offensive and shows how little you have in the smarts department. Clinton lied, proven, in the constitution that he should be impeached. Bush says things you don't like, and some end up being false, not lying)
All the rest show how wrong Jim is...and he has been proven wrong here by others already...
If liberals want to say that we support liberal democracy over noble third world tyrants, that we support capitalism over command economics, that we support traditional, classic morality over revolutionary counterculture morality-- we're guilty as charged.
Plus everything that marshall said. The point is that conservatives have a complex view of world events. Where we see costs and benefits to incremental actions, liberals see problems and solutions to categorical policies.
Our trade policy with countries ruled by the communist party demonstrates this. If a country is making the right steps toward economic and political freedom, we reward them. If it remains recalcitrant, like Iran or Cuba, we don't. Liberals think it is all or nothing, like a bumper sticker, and that a "solution," if imposed, must be imposed in all circumstances, regardless of the dictates of Prudence and Wisdom.
How revealing that the liberal "beliefs" are spot on and the conservative ones are "offensive." It's all hogwash.
And game, am I to ignore vittal's request? Why am I ignoring the post as you claim by countering with my own? Do you expect me to counter your bullshit list point by point? It's been done many times just as Marshall has so eloquently refuted mine. I suppose you would have prefered that I go down your list and go "yep, yep, yep." I don't think so, Tim.
Furthermore, game wrote this:
"(I cant believe you have the balls to write that after your girl Hilary and other losers say they don't want to fund the war anymore) Damn it are you stupid"
I can't believe anyone is so "stupid" as to confuse veterans pay and combat benefits with funding a war. BTW, Hillary is not "my girl".
Jim
Let’s see, your argument goes something like this: “My list is hogwash, therefore if you won’t admit yours is also, you’re not being reasonable.”
There’s a big difference between the two lists. Let’s see if you can figure it out (admit it) on your own.
About Blogger. On a different post, Jim had a link to his blog. I went there to read what he had to present (couldn't find it BTW) but I didn't have to suffer through entering word verifications over and over until my comments posted. Then, from his blog I linked to yet another (that's why I lose sleep) and there was yet another variation, but the point is yours and those two are all Blogger. So I guess my complaint has to do with what features of Blogger you've chosen to utilize. I've been to other blogs where changes were made after suffering obscene or otherwise offensive and insufferable comments. It's the downside of the medium. I have mixed opinions on such things. It's nice to visit a blog and not deal with total jerks, but some of the security and filtering grates to no end. Personally, were I to have the wherewithal to run my own blog, I'd just block the really asshole posters. I don't know. Perhaps my ignorance hides more complexities of running a blog.
Marshall, I would tend to agree with you on most of your post. I have to enter the work verification over and over. At least I'm not having to log in every day like I was last week.
And filtering would be nice in some cases, grant you that.
My argument, blamin', is that your list is EXACTLY equivalent to my list, no more, no less. There are humerous flashes of half truth, but in general they are both crap. You can't prove yours nor disprove mine any more that I can do the same.
If you think somehow yours is righteous and mine is not, you must be a wingnut.
C'mon Jim. The first one on each list is easy to answer to. On Game's, point number one is true for most liberals. How can you say otherwise? It's rarely the conservative that lobbies against capital punishment, and it's rare to find conservatives that support abortion. I dare you to try and prove otherwise. It's a generality, but both sides are commonly viewed in generalities. That's not a problem. Generalities can be accurate or inaccurate. Game's point number one is accurate for the vast majority of libs.
Your first point is completely inaccurate. People like Fred Phelps are abberrations. Conservatives don't hate homosexuals, they hate homosexual behavior and the position of homos that such behavior deserves the same respect and sanctioning as hetero sex within a traditional marriage. This isn't to say that conservatives aren't humans subject to the lure of temptation, but they are less likely to justify the behavior even when they succomb.
Now I could go down each list (actually I've already done yours) and show how Games' reflects reality and yours doesn't. I don't think you could do the same in reverse. I know you can't because yours just isn't based on truth.
Well, I don't even hate homosexual behavior. I simply believe that by definition homosexuals can't marry, and don't see the wisdom of changing the definition.
OK, here you go Marshall:
1. You have to be against capital punishment, butsupport abortion on demand. I know MANY liberals who are NOT against capital punishment and MANY who are against abortion and MANY more who are against certain types of abortion. So false.
2. You have to believe that businesses createoppression and governments create prosperity. I know of nobody who believes either of these. I know that many corporations are less than altruistic in the way they treat labor. And if YOU don't think the government creates prosperity, then ask the oil companies who get huge tax breaks and then earn $12 billion a quarter. That said, I know of know liberals who say that governments create prosperity. So false.
3. You have to believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens are more of a threat than nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Iran or Chinese and North Korean communists. I don't think this is true and I don't know of anybody who does. So false.
4. You have to believe that there was no art beforefederal funding. I know of nobody who believes this. So false.
5. You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical changes in the earth's climate and more affected by soccer moms driving SUV's. This is not a liberal idea. It is a near universal believe excluding wingnuts. Even George W. Bush is beginning to come around. So, the statement is TRUE, but to confine it to liberals is false.
6. You have to believe that gender roles are artificial, but being homosexual is natural. I don't know what it means that "gender roles are artificial". So I don't believe it. So false. Being a homosexual is totally natural. Is it the norm? No. Does it occur throughout the animal kingdom? Yes. Has it occurred in humans for millenia? Yes. So True.
7. You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding. I don't believe this is a liberal concept either. Everyone in the world except wingnuts knows that AIDS is spread by sexual activity, gay and straight, and that education and preventative measures, which cost money, could help stop the spread of AIDS. False that you have to be a liberal to understand this.
8. You have to believe that the same teacher who can'tteach 4th-graders how to read is somehow qualified toteach those same kids about sex. This is a totally stupid item and not related to liberals. Besides, it's 7th grade. So false.
9. You have to believe that hunters don't care about nature, but PETA activists do. Notice that the NRA has come out against some of the anti-environmental measures of this administration. I have no respect for PETA. So false.
10. You have to believe that self-esteem is moreimportant than actually doing something to earn it. Another stupid item which attempts to wingnut-ify a complex concept. Not a liberal concept. I don't believe this one. So false.
11. You have to believe the NRA is bad because itsupports certain parts of the Constitution, while theACLU is good because it supports certain parts of theConstitution. You could easily turn this one around IF IT WERE TRUE, but it is not. The second amendment has been debated practically since it was signed and still is today. The ACLU support the entire Constitution but focuses on CIVIL LIBERTIES, hence the name. So false.
12. You have to believe that taxes are too low, butATM fees are too high. I don't believe this. I believe that taxes have been effectively lessened for the wealthiest and increased for the middle class. I don't pay ATM fees. So false.
13. You have to believe that Margaret Sanger andGloria Steinem are more important to American historythan Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, or AbrahamLincoln. I don't believe this and I don't know anybody who does. So false.
14. You have to believe that standardized tests areracist, but racial quotas and set-asides are not. I don't believe this. I don't have a strong opinion on this. So false.
15. You have to believe that the only reason socialismhasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because theright people haven't been in charge. I don't believe this and I don't know anybody who does. I've never even heard of anybody claiming this. So false.
16. You have to believe that homosexual paradesdisplaying drag queens and transvestites should beconstitutionally protected, and manger scenes atChristmas should be illegal. I believe nothing of the sort. I do firmly believe in separation of church and state. I have no problem with a manger scene in public. I don't believe that manger scenes should be displayed in publicly-owned spaces to the exclusion of icons of other religions. I do not believe that manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal. So false.
17. You have to believe that this message is a part ofa vast, right-wing conspiracy. I don't believe this. It's part of a very narrow-minded wingnut group with nothing constructive to do. So false.
GOD BLESS AMERICAOops, can't do that either. Of course you can, so false.
By my count 16 false and 1 true.
OK?
Jim,
You're in denial. But with a little counseling, I'm confident you'll experience a breakthrough in no time. In response to your last post, here we go again:
1. "I know MANY liberals who are NOT against capital punishment and MANY who are against abortion and MANY more who are against certain types of abortion. So false." I don't know what you mean by "many", but regardless, these points are all typical of libs in general. That means MOST libs feel this way. On that, there is no debate. If it were not true, there'd be far less debate on either subject. So in general, Game's first statement is true.
In fact, I'm not going to respond to each point after all. But I will go back to a statement I made in a previous thread regarding the actions of the left that give a better picture of lib beliefs than anything that comes out of their mouths. There are too many "most libs I know" statements by you that are meaningless to charges against libs in general. If your response was truth, Dems in office would be rare indeed. But the truth is that most libs match Game's list to a tee. You are simply using the fact that much of it is worded in a satirical way to cover for libs.
Case in point:
#4. Of course there was art before federal funding (Especially Marshall Art). But try to find a conservative who supports tax money going to the National Endowment for the Arts (THIS Art hasn't received a dime!). Most of us would prefer no tax dollars going there. Personally, I actually enjoy spending four hours walking around the Art Institute in Chicago (and I don't mean the outside of the building). But if one desires the life of an artist, he should do it on his own dime in his free time when he's not at his job, not while paying his bills with my tax dollars. This is a lib notion without a doubt.
Another is #7. Of course AIDS is spread through physical contact (mostly), but the libs who support the gay agenda would prefer trillions spent on cures for an easily prevented disease rather than adjust personal behavior. This is entirely a lib notion. You think we should be spending money on education? How about this: how much does it cost to print a few million slips of paper that says. "Stop fuckin' or you might get AIDS and die!" Simplistic, but it's really where the focus should be. Not on telling folks to wear rubbers or leaching off of others to buy meds for those who can't keep it in their pants.
Then you have goofy stuff:
In creating this nation, most of the colonies already had the right to own and carry weapons in their individual constitutions. They insisted upon it in the one we now go by due to their understanding of how defenseless a citizenry is against a well armed despotic government. The right to bear arms is a protection against the government. Just think about the evil Bushhitler and you'll get the idea. The debates have occurred largely within the last 100 years (if that)as a knee-jerk and ineffective ploy to reduce crime. Back in the 1700's, the militia was considered the public. Governments have armies, the public has militias. Conservatives believe in the right to bear arms by the citizens, and libs believe we should all be unarmed and at the mercy of the government, police and criminals who don't obey gun laws.
What IS still debated constantly is that homosexuality is NOT natural. It is certainly not normal. It is deviant as it deviates from the norm. We know it's changable and a matter of choice. Yes it is. Humans are capable of being what they want for the most part and this is very true here. It's simply easier to stay the same. Those saying it happens throughout the animal kingdom are homos or their supporters. But what I can do is consult my daughter who works at Lincoln Park Zoo and have her ask her boss how many queer animals they have or have had.
But anyway, the points on Game's list are issues that Dem politicians run on and vote on once elected. Conservative voters aren't putting those guys in office. (Except perhaps in a stupid protest against incumbents) So in your small circle some of these points might not match up, or perhaps your friends don't realize they are conservatives. As you think they are all false, perhaps YOU'RE really conservative, too! Hey, it's OK. I once thought I was a Democrat until I really started paying attention.
Game. Please. I'm beggin' you. Lose the word verification. IT'S PISSIN' ME OFF!!!!!!!!!!!
if I do that then I will get lots of spam....you can do it
responding to Jim:
1. That either just a lie or you have very irregular friends. a VAST majority of liberals are against the death penalty, and a VAST majority are for abortion. Those are flat out facts.
3. Liberals use a lot more time protesting and attacking the NRA than getting mad at anything N. Korean or Iran are doing. In fact, you guys want us to "talk" to them...
6. Liberals do not believe that men and women are different. they demand that in every aspect of life everything is equal. Men and women are not equal. Men are better at somethings, women better at others. These are general comments that are true about most people. You lame ass arguement that "I know people who think this way, or I don't know anyone who..." is wasting my time.
I'll stop there for now...you have not made a logical or important point yet, just that you have fictional liberal friends that someone never think or believe anything that poll after poll shows a majority of liberals believe. You other comments simply show your inability to understand the implications of liberals words and actions.
wow, I just took the time to read the rest of your answers. Why did you waste your time with those lame ass answers Jim?
every answer is "well, I don't believe that"
The post was not written for you...and if you are being honest and not in denial, you need to come up with a new name for yourself...I could show you how most of this list is true, I already have on the firt few, but it is not worth my time with you anway.
Really. At this point, the horse we're beatin' has been dead for awhile, anyway.
I'll get to YOUR "lame ass" answers in a minute, game.
First of all, the title of your post is "17 Ways to be a Good Liberal. Every one of your points begins with "You have to..." I have demonstrated factually that, no, you DON'T have to. This all by itself renders every point patently false.
OK, #1: Many and perhaps most liberals oppose the death penalty. Not all, so you dont "have to" oppose it to be a good liberal. Gore is pro-death penalty. Does that not count if he is "insane"? I know of nobody who is "for" abortion. Every liberal I know of is cognizant of the realities of life, of health issues, of sexuality. Conservatives seem to think they can stop people from having sex (that's the real issue, people doing the big nasty) by making them carry unwanted pregnancies to term. Every liberal I have every heard of believes abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. You will never, ever stop abortion as long as women get pregnant. EVER.
Therefore the majority of liberals sees no conflict between opposing the death penalty and being for safe, legal and rare abortions. They are not related. And you don't HAVE to believe one way or the other on either point, so again the point is patently false.
Game said #3: "Liberals use a lot more time protesting and attacking the NRA than getting mad at anything N. Korean or Iran are doing." This is absurdly false on its face. Just a stupid claim. And of course we want to talk to them. "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" I believe the saying goes. To think that you can go through foreign affairs "life" without "talking" or negotiating is naive at best and frighteningly dangerous at worst. So the first part is false and your second part is "of course".
#6 The waste of time is for you to make an obviously blatant false claim. Liberals totally understand that men and women are different and inherently have different strengths and weaknesses and nobody but perhaps a small fringe element demands that in every aspect of life they be equal. You assertion is just plain false.
What's pointless here is for you to attempt to juxtapose might be truths with blatantly false claims, say that liberals "have to believe" this utterly stupid assertion and then tell me I'm lame ass because I'm pointing out how absurd the claims are.
I don't deny that many, maybe even the majority of liberals oppose the death penalty. I don't have to defend that. It's true and an honorable position. I don't deny that many, maybe even the majority of liberals believe that abortions should be safe, legal and rare. I don't have to defend that either. It's true and an honorable position.
This is only the first argument. Many of your points are half truths about which most liberals would have no problem. But then you couple them with false claims that render the point, um, pointless.
The list is phoney, false, absurd, satirical, whatever, but it is not true, cannot be proven to be true. My list is no better than yours. It is a satirical list which bears half truths and phoney claims.
To spend more time saying that one is truer that the other is an utter waste of time.
Marshall, see the above, then:
#4 The list item as written is false and absurd, as you point out. I know of no liberal who would deny that most liberals believe it is worthwhile for the government to support the arts. Nobody is ashamed of that as far a I know. The list tries to make it somehow bad and evil or absurd that liberals believe in funding arts.
#7 Go ahead and tell people to stop fucking. See how far that gets you. Then try to get it into your head that as much as AIDS was primarily a "gay" disease in THIS country in the 80s, it no longer is. It is a world-wide disease that probably affects more heterosexuals that homosexuals.
I'm not going to get into a huge debate about the second amendment because I am not an expert. But I believe that when the constitution was written there were no standing armies and no expectations that there would be standing armies in the future. Today the US spends half of the total world's defense money. He have standing armies now to defend the country. If you think that owning guns today is all about protecting yourself from the government, you might want to have a word with George W. Bush, the FBI and the ATF. The National Guards of the various states are NOT armed to protect the citizens from the federal government. If the government doesn't respect your right to be protected from unreasonable search and seizure, they're going to laugh until thier sides split when you tell them your coming after them with a gun. If this is what the second amendment is all about to you, then I was apparently right when I joked here earlier about the Timothy McVeigh wing of the part.
Regarding homosexuality: "We know it's changable and a matter of choice. Yes it is." This is plainly absurd. There may be debate in your church about this, but there is very little debate in the scientific and sociological community. I will not disagree that homosexual acts are acts of choice, but that in no way means that the attraction of people to others of the same sex is a choice.
Well my fingers are tired and I'm sure I have "proved" nothing to you. If you must continue to rehash this absurd thread, carry on.
I was content to leave it alone, but you had keep at it, so....
You waste time talking about the "have to" part. I believe we said there's satire and tongue in cheek aspects to this thread. Why must you get so hung up on things that don't matter? John Kerry would be ashamed at your inability to deal with nuance. The main point to be made at this point is that in Game's list, the GENERALITIES are based on positions that are taken by lib politicians who are then receive votes as a result.
YOUR list, OTOH, is NOT based on reality, but on liberal perception of conservative positions. For example, I know of no politician who runs on a platform that reflects the belief that God hates fags. People who believe God hates fags might usually vote Repub, but most conservatives find such people as lunatic as Cindy Sheehan. (Lighten up, that was a joke. She's a totally different kind of lunatic.) So my point here is that you're missing the point of the list. You're taking it too seriously, even though the underlying concepts are based on truth.
Now, I'm not going to go over each point again except for a couple of particulars.
Gov funding the arts is not evil or bad, but it is absurd and stupid. As I said, be creative on your own time and dime, not mine. Look, I'm not without artistic ability myself. It's an attractive idea that I could get a grant, not work and just hang out and paint with the hopes of selling my stuff. Now while I'm sure some coin goes to museums, the creator of "Piss Christ" was working on a grant from what I heard. Not good. But even funding museums should not be done with federal funds in my opinion. I would, however, be less pissed if that was all they did.
A small point: When the Constitution was written, the standing army was British. But anyway, the amendment was for SELF protection and it was believed an armed populace was another obstruction for a despotic government. There are more citizens than soldiers.
ABout homosexuality. Many have left the lifestyle. There are support groups and organizations all over the place. I think there's about four in Chicago. Though some still struggle, many speak of the same sex not having the allure it once did. From everything I've read thus far, I believe it's like a paradigm that is waiting for that epiphany that shifts it. This is my own opinion. I liken it to being partial to the typical California blonde chick until one sees an Oriental girl that knocks your socks off, and from that point you never think about blondes. That's the Reader's Digest version of my opinion. It's deeper but it's late.
Try hard enough and you can de-program a wingnut, too. :-) But you are entitled to your OPINION, or course and I respect that.
Small point: When the Constitution was written the British army had surrendured and was driven out of the former colonies.
"[Funding the arts] is absurd and stupid." THAT is your opinion. I disagree with it. Why do conservatives think that every dollar of funding of the arts goes to the John Maplethorpes? Doesn't funding support art galleries, symphony orchestras, community art programs and lots of other stuff besides the same old stuff you always dredge up?
Now, I have never taken either list seriously. The only reason I even continue with this is that you and game continue to maintain that the liberal list is somehow more accurate and truth-based than the conservative list. It only is TO YOU because you are conservative and nothing liberal has any truth, benificence, or value of any sort. Therefore, you feel free to say anything you like about liberals and liberal positions and declare it the truth.
It's not. And that's the point.
Jim,
Perhaps you were right on the Constitution and I was thinking of the Declaration. Neither here nor there for this discussion.
Funding for the arts of course does more than fund "Piss Christ", but I as a tax payer have no say in where it goes exactly. But even for all the other things you mentioned, I don't see that as a legitimate roll of our federal government. That's one of those things better served by the states or perhaps even more locally than that, but for sure, not the feds. Just ain't their gig. Personally, I think private funding is the best and anyone who ever watches PBS knows that corporations are huge donors, as are private citizens with money. States could decide who gets state tax dollars based on the will of their people, which could differ from state to state.
You're in denial about the truth behind Game's list. I've attempted to show how your list was far from it. Obviously I didn't do a good job of it. But the liberal description of conservative POV is often way off the mark, either purposely to deceive or by lack of will to understand. In your case, I'm going with the latter. And here's an example: "It only is TO YOU because you are conservative and nothing liberal has any truth, benificence, or value of any sort" The fact is that it's not the goals of libs, but the means of getting where we have problems with libs. Take charity. We see it as a duty of individuals, you see it as a duty of government. (It's a generalization but based on reality.) An example of lib misperception is the classic "greedy rich" angle. A recent book that I believe we've discussed in this blog has shown that it isn't a matter of wealth that determines generosity, but philosophy or religious background. Game's list is true either directly for some points, or by the results of lib action in others.
You did not fail to prove that my list was "far from the truth." There was no need to because I know and freely admit that my list is satirical in nature.
What you continue too succeed in doing is deluding yourself into believing that game's list is any more "truthful" than mine. It simply is not.
What you fail to do and will continue to fail to do if you try is convince me or any non-conservative otherwise.
marshall said...
Game. Please. I'm beggin' you. Lose the word verification. IT'S PISSIN' ME OFF!!!!!!!!!!!
I second that emotion -- and have mentioned it many a time. It's why you don't hear from me much any more. I don't have time for it, it's very tiring, and it needs to go. You've had spam on here anyway.
Jim,
With all respect, you’re simply deluding yourself if you claim the Dem leadership doesn’t directly (openly state) or indirectly (through their reasoning and/or arguments) support/agree with most of Games list. Marshall has made that point and you’ve conveniently ignored that point. And, you’re not being intellectually honest to pretend otherwise, additionally it’s not a valid point to state “because my list is BS, it naturally follows your list is BS”. And your arguments that not “all” libs believe a certain way is also not relevant when your leadership actively attempts to legislate said beliefs.
Furthermore, we can “prove” most of games list through direct quotes from Dem leaders and “champions of the cause”. I’d like to hear a moonbat explain how that makes one a wingnut. Just because you claim “I haven’t heard” or “I don’t know of anyone who…” doesn’t make your point more valid, as a matter of fact it makes the case that you’re deluding yourself, and it appears you’re doing a damn good job of it, with all respect.
For me, I have to enter the "word verification" twice. A little aggrevating, but not anything to get worked up about.
OK, let's try this another way. First of all, as I said before, "You have to" invalidates each item because you don't. That said (I don't know why I'm doing this again):
#1 Yes, most liberals are against capital punishment. Most liberals believe that abortions should be safe, legal, and rare. "Abortion on demand" is a right-wing framing of an issue meant to inflame. The reason that most liberals oppose most restrictions is that they understand that the anti-abortion people will never compromise and never end their goal that anybody who has sex and conceives must carry the fetus to full term, period. There is no relationship between the death penalty and abortion. So to say you have to be against but be for is rediculous.
#2 Liberals believe that SOME companies treat their employees and their neighbors in less than honorable ways and that without some government attention it would be worse. Can you deny the credibility of this belief? Read this as written, then can you deny it? The second part of this has no meaning. Governments have central banks that in the end help to create and maintain prosperity. Governments have economic policies, trade agreements, etc. Name me a Democratic leader who somehow espouses a belief that it is the government's duty to make poor people rich. That's what you are really trying to claim, isn't it?
#3 This is nonsensical hyperbole. Nobody believes this, certainly not liberals.
#4 My previous statement stands. This claim is absurd. False on its face.
#5 This too is absurd. Nobody claims that SUVs have a greater effect on global warming than cyclical changes. Nobody! Most people do believe that SUVs (symbolicly speaking) exacerbate global warming and accelerate it. This again is not a liberal issue. Even Bush is coming around.
#6 Name or cite a source for any respected "liberal" who has said that gender roles are artificial, please. I know of nobody who holds this "position". I believe that being a homosexual, while not the norm, is natural. I believe that being left-handed, while not the norm, is natural. As I stated before, few liberals have any problem with the latter assertion, but juxtaposing it with the former is simply nonsensical.
#7 This is simply stupid and I won't go over it again.
#8 This is simply stupid and I won't go over it again, either.
#9 This is simply stupid. Name me any well-known liberal who has criticized hunters. Name me any well-known liberal who supports PETA.
#10 This is simply stupid, an idiotically simplified description of a complex subject. It is also not a "liberal" issue.
#11 This is another stupid one. Meaningless because not a word of it is true.
#12 Another stupid one. With no context there is no meaning and the ATM part is simply stupid.
#13 Name me ONE single source to support this stupid assertion.
#14 This is a complex issue and I believe you will find a wide array of opinions accross the political spectrum.
#15 Cite one source where a well-know liberal leader has made this claim.
#16 Yes, the first ammendment guarantees the right of assembly. As stated before, there is a difference between public and public property. No liberal leader is against a public display of a manger scene on private property. Few have any problem with a display on public property if there is no exclusion of icons from other religions.
#17 Conspiracy? No. Lunacy? Of course.
God Bless America!
blamin said. . .
For me, I have to enter the "word verification" twice.
Yeah, and you and I, and everyone else here has to do it every single time we do a post
Way too aggrevating for this kid, as it was for Marshall, and for practically everyone else here --
So, here I quit doing it.
When it's gone, I'll be back.
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