Monday, August 20, 2007

Why does liberal radio fail?

I know atleast some of the liberals here will cite the "vast right wing conspiracy" as the reason liberals can not make it on the air. Well, if people wanted to listen to them, they would be on the air.
You might be able to show a small number of cases where the liberal talk show host had low numbers instead of almost a zero rating, but that doesn't explain why in just about every single market Air America was in, the ratings were terrible, and now it is finished.
Lets see if we can get any honest answers.

Here are a few stories on air America ratings:

I'll go on Arbitron and show you myself
Detroit: .4 rating 31st place...conservative talk radio...5.6 rating...1st place
Chicago: .3 rating 39th place...Conservative talk radio number one and eight
New York: "air America's flagship station...0.6 rating...33rd place

I could keep doing this all day long. Its obvious the problem is no one wants to listen to it.


PCD said...


The Liberals just won't accept that liberal radio, especially (sc)air america, is just plain inferior to talk radio. It drives them nuts that even Michael Savage kills them in the ratings.

Jim is a prime example of Liberal radio. He can't debate. He silences the opposition, especially when they debunk and destroy him and his arguments.

Hash is even worse. He'll demand the government ruin stations so that the Libs have parity with the right. Hash can't accept the marketplace has spoken, and HE LOST!

The Game said...

First paragraph, dead on. They make up conspiracy theories and excuses why liberal radio fails.
I will have to say that Jim and Hash have been better the last four or five days....lets see how it goes.

Realism said...

I will grant you that conservative talk radio is more "entertaining" than liberal radio.

But what I would like to know is this:

Why is it, when you talk about the imbalance in talk radio, it's just the free market supplying what the people want.

But when it's newspapers, tv news, magazines and all of the other forms of news media that supposedly lean liberal, it's NOT the free market, but rather a nefarious plot by liberals to brainwash the populace?

I mean, if the reason that there's so much more conservative talk radio is because that's what people want to hear, then why do you complain about the "liberal" media when obviously that's what people want too?

Jason H. Bowden said...


"why do you complain about the liberal media when obviously that's what people want too?"

Because conservatives believe the leftwing media is wrong! They push things with the best of intentions that lead to adverse results-- the problem with leftism in general. Perhaps the common man thinks in terms of slogans, but our intellectual class should know better.

That being said, I don't mind the presence of CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, PBS, MSDNC, Time, Newsweek, the New York Slimes, the Washington Compost-- a free society benefits from the exchange of ideas and mutual criticism. In contrast, Stalinist proposals with Orwellian names like the fairness doctrine and net neutrality DO bother me, since such policies undermine the conditions of a liberal society in the first place.

Real Debate said...

Realism, the difference is in objectivity.

Conservative radio admits its bias. As does liberal radio.

The other media proports to be objective when clearly as a whole they are not.

No one cares about the idiotorial page, that is opinion. In an objective environment news should be called down the middle, and clearly it is not.

That's it, truly it is that simple.

PCD said...


Here's a little linky poo for you. A little documentation of MSM Liberal bias:

crustyolbastard said...

Problem comes when the whole paper is an editorial.

Used to be certain papers were known as Reublican and others as Democrat, and still others, incredibly enough, like the NY Times, were pretty darned even handed.

hashfanatic said...

AAR was doing just fine when it started out, but this freaked the wingnuts out, and AAR management was infilitrated with the moneychangers who brought it down with ridiculous programming changes and fatal business decisions, clearing the way for the monopoly on government-sanctioned, state-run conservative radio to once more dominate the people's airwaves.

It's that simple. It is no different now. AAR is owned by the ultimate, covert moneychanger, must of the neocon interlopers in management remain, and all of the believable hosts (apart from Hartmann and Rhodes) have been hounded off the schedule.

Jason H. Bowden said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jason H. Bowden said...

"was infilitrated with the moneychangers....AAR is owned by the ultimate, covert moneychanger, most of the neocon interlopers remain"

Oh dear. I know Hash will try to rationalize this. But for everyone else, why do you on the left openly tolerate this stuff? It is so in your face on "mainstream" Democrat sites that LGF even has a running series, 'The Protocols of the Daily Kos'. I know you're nationalists, and socialists, but don't you think going all the way Hitler style is a bit, uh, extreme?

What gives?

The Game said...

This is hash making excuses. It is not the lack of talent that AAR failed, but some "neocon" bla bla bla evil.

hashfanatic said...

"What gives?"

Why, Jason?

Do YOU now only have the authority to determine who has a right to free speech and who does not?

I certainly did not dictate to the neoconservative movement with whom they were to lie in bed, and engage in fleshy union with.

Sleep with dogs, wake up with fleas.

hashfanatic said...

"This is hash making excuses. It is not the lack of talent that AAR failed, but some "neocon" bla bla bla evil."

Facts are facts, game.

Look at the current roster. Apart from Hartmann and Rhodes, every single host is AIPAC-cleared. Even Michael Harrison of Talkers' Magazine brazenly admits to footing the bill and guiding Lionel on a custom tour of Israel right before he joined AAR, to "increase his awarene$$", with the blessings of Malcolm Hoenlein...

This is what they do, game. They control our media by buying anyone who's willing to play, and disposing of anyone who won't (Malloy, Seder, Maron, etc.)

Why do you suppose AAR has a brand-new owner (Green), an admitted neocon program director (Bernstein), and the same characters (ex. Elberg) than ran AAR into the ground under the OLD ownership?

Jim said...

I will have to say that Jim [has]... been better the last four or five days

What's different from me in the last 4-5 days? Don't lump be in with everybody who comments from the left, please.

blamin said...

The left can't make it on radio for one simple reason.

You have to be a miserable, defeatisit, depressed, kind of dude to constantly back the left. Lefty radio simply magnifies this mindset. No matter how miserable you may be, you don't want to be constantly reminded of all the reasons to be depressed. Oh ya, some may holler "hell ya" when listening to the drival, but many (if not most) can't take the daily dose of negativetiy.

And here you have the main difference between lefty radio and righty radio. Those on the right (at least those whom make a difference) champion that which has made this country great. Those on the left, constantly bemoan all that is wrong, while poo-pa'ing that which is good in this country. It dosen't take a rocket scientist to see that unsubstantiated boo-hooing, and bellyaching wears thin after a while.

Ya, the more jaded among us will cry "jingosim", but that's just a pathetic attempt to justify their unsubstantiatied anti-american pap.

Jim said...

You have to be a miserable, defeatisit, depressed, kind of dude to constantly back the left.

Apologies to game and everyone else, but blamin', your last comment just full of shit. No further explanation needed.

The Game said...

It might have been harsh, but blamin is right.
Liberals constantly talk about how much everything sucks, how evil everything is, how we are destroying is can anyone want to listen to that?
Well, almost no one does

blamin said...

This is for you Jim,

walmart is killing me.

Coca-cola is posioning me.

Home Depot is ?screwing me?.

Pet is posioning/taking advantage of me/

I'm a mooooooron, don't even realize what these evil corps are doing tooooo meeee.


PCD said...

Thanks Jim for proving my initial statement about you right in this thread.

Andy said...

Game, blamin and PCD- how much liberal talk radio have you actually listened to compared to your reliance on tired and antiquated stereotypes?

My lord, you're as original as those on Kos who compare Bush to Hitler!

The Game said...

nobody listens to it, that is the point...sorry if you are one of the .1%

Andy said...

I don't listen to it either. I therefore refrain from making sweeping (and rather asinine) generalizations. How on Earth do you gain such expertise on what what liberals talk about if you admit that you refrain from listening to liberal talk shows?

The combination of arrogance and stupidity in the last few posts by blamin, PCD and Game is astounding. Way to raise debate and differentiate yourself from Hash.

PCD said...


You are beginning to be an arrogant, clueless clown yourself. I live in a heavily Democratic part of Iowa. I hear the union goons talk about forcing workers into their union. Yes, as in beating the crap out of them if they don't sign the Union card.

We have monthly "Crackerbarrels" here where the politicos lay out their agendas and accomplishments. You can go, it is open to the public. You can watch the Union Goons get all their questions pandered to while the public gets screwed out of time to ask their questions.

Take time to read the opinions in the Dubuque Telegraph-Herald, Then, come back and apologize.

Andy said...

PCD calling others clueless...that's rich.

I never expressed surprise that Democratic presidential candidates pandered to unions, so I have no clue why you feel I should apologize. That's the name of the game during primary season, as is the pandering to the Christian Right in the South.

PCD said...


Read what I said again. I never mentioned Presidential candidates in what I said. The Crackerbarrel is hosted by the League of (Democrat) Women Voters and the panel is the State Reps and Senators.

Now, how are UNION GOONS tied to Presidential Candidates??? You really have a reading problem, Andy.

Next we can talk about ACORN filing frauduelent voter registrations here.

Oh, again, you owe an apology.

Andy said...

I figured it was a continuation of a previous thread. The tie between unions and elections is quite obvious.

Unions are political active and can be counted on to vote. I would wager a guess that is the reason why state gov't officials give them more attention.

Oh, I don't owe you a damn thing.

hashfanatic said...

Indeed, it is they who owe America.

They need to pay us back the money they have stolen.

The Game said...

Hash is like a homeless person talking to himself on the street...lets keep it that way.

Andy said:
How on Earth do you gain such expertise on what what liberals talk about if you admit that you refrain from listening to liberal talk shows?

I started off this post by listing link after link after link showing how liberal talk radio is listened to by no one. Liberals like to make up stories of evil conservatives keeping their shows off the air. The point of the post....the lack of entertainment or talent or anyone wanting to listen to it is the reason liberal talk radio is bankrupt again and being taken off most stations.

Andy said...

Game, I have no problem w/that. However, that is a far cry from earlier posts where you agreed w/wild generalizations.

hashfanatic said...

"Hash is like a homeless person talking to himself on the street...lets keep it that way."

You simply have no idea of what you are talking about, or how radio works, so you distorted certain figures to paint an inaccurate picture that suits your own purposes.

Talk radio has no business on the AM dial anyway, particularly neocon-run talk....

It should be migrated to satellite.

The Game said...

Explain how I manipulated numbers...they are straight off arbitron ratings.
Amazing. If you want any respect as someone who is able to think, you can't take data that comes from the group who collects radio rating data and say it is made up or wrong or neocon evil corporations, ahhhhhhh

hashfanatic said...

Well, for one...

You used WWRL in New York as a sample. This happens to be my market.

WWRL has probably the weakest signal of any station in New York. I, being a few miles from the transmitter, require a gigantic GE Superadio to pull it in at all, and the signal goes to even more severely diminished power at sundown.

The station itself runs, except for around three daily shows from AAR, that are actually tailored to progressives (although, AIPAC-approved). The station is run by a West Indian black man, who runs programming uniquely suited to Caribbean blacks, like a morning show with Armstrong Williams, of "No Child's Behind Left" payola scandal fame, a bizarre, drunken, incoherent "libertarian" atheist neocon plant named Lionel, who's been implicated in accepting a free junket to Israel from Michael Harrison of Talker's Magazine, and last, but not least, Alan Colmes, the "Black Hole Of Charisma" himself. All else is infomercials, and fundamentalist religious programming targeted specifically to West Indian blacks.

How can you turn around and portray this "flagship" station's programming as truly representative of a progressive radio outlet?

What is there (besides Rhodes and Hartmann, who most people stream or download anyway) that would appeal to any progressive, much less a sophisticated, intelligent progressive living and working in New York?

On a station that cannot even be heard?

The Game said...

from Wikipedia:
WWRL is a radio station in New York City, broadcasting at 1600 kHz AM owned by Access.1 Communications. Since September 1, 2006, it is the flagship station of the Air America Radio network, replacing WLIB. It also carries some local programming, including the morning show with Armstrong Williams and Sam Greenfield, pre-empting Air America's The Young Turks, as well as the syndicated Doug Stephan and Alan Colmes.

The Game said...

Well, I guess AAR is so pathetic its flatship station, the station it is on in a city with millions upon millions of liberals sucks. If anyone wanted to listen to it the flagship would be WLIB.
But WLIB would rather do this:
WLIB (1190 AM) is an urban gospel radio station located in New York City and owned by Inner City Broadcasting Corporation.

Prior to picking up its current format, WLIB was the flagship station for Air America Radio, which leased air-time from the station's owner. That arrangement ended on September 1, 2006, when Air America's programming moved to WWRL.[1]

hashfanatic said...

"WLIB (1190 AM) is an urban gospel radio station located in New York City and owned by Inner City Broadcasting Corporation.

Prior to picking up its current format, WLIB was the flagship station for Air America Radio, which leased air-time from the station's owner. That arrangement ended on September 1, 2006, when Air America's programming moved to WWRL."

Yes, this is correct. AAR was on WLIB before, but management was not vigilant, and neocon operatives determined to drive AAR out of its biggest market infiltrated the inner core, and began ripping off the kitty, made business decisions so ridiculous that everyone knew it was sabotage, continued paying one UNTALENTED host (Franken) an idiotically high salary (when they could be bothered to pay anyone), and wound up not having their contract renewed with WLIB (and their halfway-decent signal).

There is much more to it, but there it is in a nutshell. Sheldon Drobny, the founder of AAR, had long been driven out by the covert investors by then, and that's why I call them moneychangers. They are precisely the types who Jesus threw out of the temple.

Drobny now runs another progressive radio outfit called Nova M.

The Game said...

stewart smally is your biggest voice in out for the black helicopters...they are out to get you...if you ever get out of your moms basement.

Ron said...

Dude we have gone over this a dozen times.
After spending over 30 years in radio, yes I consider myself an expert in this area. You are way off on your proposition and you well know why I say this. Or is this something I have repeated to you over and over again and you just continue to ignore because it doesn't fit your frame.

Whatever the case it is more proof that you guys can hear a logical fact based argument and forget you even had a discussion's the next day. Alzheimer's conservatives.

Sorry, the only people buying your junk science are narrowminded sheeple like your first poster.
This is a good example of why I no longer post here much. I have told you how this works from the radio/ratings and business side over and over again. You ignore what any point I make so what is the point.

Ron said...

By the way, you are all..from the left and right... making it far more complicated and nuanced than it really is. Some times the answer is plain to see if you look at the obvious. You guys are all missing the boat.

I listen to Mike Malloy every night. I like Thom Hartmann and Peter B Collins. Randi is ok. Only 2 of these are on air america. The right is looking forward to the fall of liberal talk...they will be greatly disappointed as it gains strength by leaps and bounds over the next few years. Go ahead and laugh. Fox News and Rush lost money and weren't successful for 5 years or more after they started. Taps is premature but go ahead and prove to the world how wrong you guys are AGAIN. It is so nice you all print your goofiness so all can see how often you are WRONG, which has been quite often.

Ron said...

On a station that cannot even be heard?

Oppps..somebody is sniffing hard at the facts here.

Marshall Art said...


Just to be clear, I don't think the right "is looking forward to the fall of liberal talk". Most of them want at least some of it around as a stark reminder of how goofy the left can be. More to the point, the right-wing hosts have never fled from an opportunity to debate the left. At least not the ones I've listened to. Lefty talk radio dies under the weight of it's own poor politics and ideologies. I don't remember all of what you've said regarding the success or failure of a radio show. But I'm sure it's more simply a part of AAR's problem, than the sole cause. Face it, just because you like to listen to some of these guys, doesn't mean that all of the left will agree.

hashfanatic said...

But AAR is NOT "lefty talk radio", and it has not been under "lefty" management since, literally, its first few weeks of existence, so why are you trying to pretend that the right had nothing to do with its demise, when it was a neocon goal to destroy it from day one?

gregrocker said...

So the 700 pound right wing child molesting (100%) chickenhawks weigh in from the doublewide Fox-watching barcolounger that Air America is dead. That would come as quite a surprise to the Air America stations on the West Coast which are booming, with major advertisers on KTLK in L.A. like United Airlines and Bank of America, whose ad agency says they won't consider advertising on hate radio.

But as you say, it's that failed liberal philosophy that won't sell on radio. Hmmm. We've now had eight years of the furthest right wing classic talk radio philosphy being implemented both here and on the peoples of the world. Results? A total wipeout of the middle class in America into a huge wage divide (something like 10,000 to 1) between the have-debts and the have-it-alls. The status of "#1 pariah nation" in every corner of the world, starting with our "allies" who hate us so totally that it wiped out all of the blood we spilled in "good wars" like I and II. A burgeoning theocracy of waddling 500-700 pound lunatic know-nothings like this blogger, crowing through no teeth about "G.W. Bush keepin us safe" while spewing worse religious theocracy than the Taliban, justifying the monstrous immorality of our illegal, Pope-declared "immoral" invasion as a Holy War against Islam.

You've done such a good job selling your ideology that young people tell pollsters lately they wouldn't consider voting GOP, your own pundits say you are going to be totally annihilated in the next election, but you still "stay the course" as the morbidly obese bullyboys you are.

Bring it on!